RHOC REUNION 3-Space Cakes, Fake Posts & Real Meltdowns

RHOC REUNION 3-Space Cakes, Fake Posts & Real Meltdowns

🎙️ Podcast Summary: RHOC – Reunion Part 3

Part 3 opens with Space Cakes, mushrooms, and Andy reminding the ladies that girl trips should be about fun. From there, we dive straight into the biggest storyline of the season: Gretchen being accused of liking and following hateful accounts online.

Gretchen maintains she’s not homophobic or transphobic and blames mindless scrolling and following too many accounts. Tamra fires back that Gretchen chose to follow hate-based pages. Heather admits she was genuinely shaken in Amsterdam because she’s had people attack her family for years—but also says she’s known Gretchen for 14 years and has never seen that side of her.

Gretchen reveals she hired a cyber analysis firm, spending thousands for a 25-page report concluding that the “worst” post was manufactured and “could not be authenticated.” Tamra instantly threatens to sue. Things escalate when the report ties some of the suspicious accounts to Tamra, which sends Tamra into full meltdown.

The women argue over who knew what and when, with Tamra insisting she wasn't the only one who saw the post. Gina apologizes to Gretchen for blindsiding her, saying she felt pressured and handled it wrong. Gretchen says she felt ambushed, especially because she and Tamra had just reconciled before Amsterdam.

Andy then rolls never-before-seen footage filmed a week after Amsterdam. A voice message alleging Tamra plotted storylines, leaked info, and manipulated narratives sends the couch into total chaos. Tamra denies everything, screams that she’s being ambushed, and swears on her kids' lives she never talks to bloggers or leaks anything. The group pushes back—because only Tamra and Gina had the post.

Heather steps in with a “state of the union,” saying the toxicity has to stop: no more kids, careers, or bloggers weaponized for storylines. Just conflict and resolution between the women—not Survivor gameplay.

A viewer Q&A leads the cast into what they regret this season, with everyone admitting at least one misstep—from Gretchen’s boy band comment to Katie’s confessional swipe, to Tamra posting Jenn’s picture.

Andy ends with the big one:
 Do Jenn and Katie see a path forward?
And we fade out without an answer… classic reunion cliffhanger.

Transcript

Wendy (00:01.198)
Welcome to We Wine Whenever, I'm Wendy.

Kelli (00:03.922)
I'm Kelly.

Wendy (00:05.774)
We are talking about Real Housewives of Orange County, Season 19, Reunion Part 3. Thank goodness.

Kelli (00:15.613)
Very happy to see this season go.

Wendy (00:18.742)
I am too. I am too.

Kelli (00:20.213)
as I am, I am happy they're bringing Vicky back for this, the 20th season. cause I've always been a fan of Vicky's quite honestly. Not that she, not that she always thought the show was about her. I don't like it when housewives do that, but other than that, I really did always enjoy watching Vicky. However, please stop bringing back old housewives because Alexis did not check out and now Gretchen did not check out. Please stop doing it. I don't think Gretchen will be back next season.

Wendy (00:51.266)
I agree and I hope that she's not back next season.

Kelli (00:54.075)
I hope she's not as well.

Wendy (00:57.686)
I know we had said a couple of weeks ago that maybe we'd like to see other old housewives brought back like Gina and, but you know what? Let's not, let's not do that. Let's not.

Kelli (01:07.205)
I agree. Like I would like like a cameo. Like I would like an update. I would like to see where Gina is now, see where Tammy Knickerbocker is now, Laurie Peterson. Not as a cast member though. And quite honestly, I don't think any of them want it anyway. think Vicky's probably the only one who would want it. Lizzie might want it because Gretchen always mentions Lizzie. So I bet you Lizzie. But whatever. We're good. We're all good on Old Housewives coming back.

Wendy (01:24.867)
Yeah.

Wendy (01:34.988)
I agree. So we start out on part three where we're talking about the space cakes and the mushrooms. And they pretty much all agree that they love to see Shannon High. And I mean, I do too. And Andy said that he loves to see Heather do the wake and bake, which honestly, like I said that, that was so surprising to me that that is.

Kelli (01:50.781)
Yeah, don't we all?

Absolutely.

Wendy (02:02.19)
who she's evolved into because she was always little Miss Prim and Proper, right? And not that there's, not that she's still not Miss Prim and Proper, she is, but she's the person you would least likely to think would do this, right?

Kelli (02:06.76)
Yes.

Kelli (02:16.145)
Yes, totally agree.

Wendy (02:19.118)
And the number one priority of a girl's trip, which we've said this all the time, is to have fun. Like that's why you go on a girl's trip, is to have fun. And if you're not having fun on a girl's trip, then don't freaking go. Don't go!

Kelli (02:24.872)
Absolutely. Exactly.

Kelli (02:30.215)
Right, right, right.

Wendy (02:34.286)
Andy brought up about Heather's ashes that moment. It was really nice to see her kind of say her goodbye to him and her thoughts. And I agree. We said this when she did it. I loved seeing that real side of Heather. And that's what I like to see are real moments with these housewives.

Kelli (02:51.143)
Yes. Yes. So how about when they were talking about the voodoo dolls? And, all right, did you watch this on Peacock? Okay. On Peacock, Shannon and Heather said, no, Shannon said that Heather had bad things happen to her after they made the voodoo dolls.

Wendy (03:02.284)
I missed that. No! Okay, I did not.

Kelli (03:16.803)
So Heather had to get rid of the voodoo doll and what she had to do was pull it apart and throw pieces out in all different containers.

Wendy (03:27.522)
Really?

Kelli (03:27.729)
Jen still has hers, feeds it, talks to it, kisses it. And when I say feeds it, like she actually will sip a cup of coffee and spit some coffee on the top.

Wendy (03:42.574)
Stop it.

Kelli (03:43.401)
I I swear. Wild.

So that was one of the- how about when Heather said her mom moved to LA, Andy's face? Heather said her mom has recently moved to LA and Andy's face was like, you're kidding.

Wendy (04:02.774)
Why did she move to LA, I wonder?

Kelli (04:04.953)
I don't know, but it was so great.

Yeah.

Wendy (04:11.106)
That's interesting. I missed that too. Well, I didn't see that either. A peacock. All right, I'm glad that you watched Peacock. And I said I was going to, but then I didn't, because I wanted to watch it that night, because I had so much to do. I know.

Kelli (04:14.249)
Maybe that was on Peacock too.

Kelli (04:23.473)
I know, I know, and I didn't have a chance to watch it that night. So if I don't, I'm like you, if I have to watch it that night, obviously I have to watch it on demand. But if I don't have to watch it that night, I try to make it a point of watching Peacock. You definitely get extras, it's amazing.

Wendy (04:45.29)
Mm-hmm. So then Andy brings up the final dinner when it was brought up that Gretchen was accused of liking the posts. And Gretchen starts out by saying, it's never right to like a post that hates anybody. And I am not transphobic or homophobic. And I said that, know, we're all guilty of mindlessly scrolling and liking things, but I'm not making excuses. listen, I think that that is an honest answer in regards to that. I mean,

I think people do mindlessly scroll and hit like, right?

Kelli (05:19.017)
I agree with that. And my issue is, and this goes for both what went on with Gretchen and the last scene about Tamra. Why have we not seen the posts that Gretchen supposedly liked?

Wendy (05:34.454)
Right. Right.

Kelli (05:37.82)
Additionally, why have we not seen any proof of Tamra in DMs? Because when Teresa got caught with all about the bullshit podcast, we saw proof. We saw text messages from Teresa, from Louie, from James Leonard. We haven't seen any of that. I know we'll get there, but I'm just saying both with Gretchen and Tamra, we never saw a proof of Gretchen liking any of these posts.

Wendy (05:59.361)
No, you're right.

Wendy (06:05.419)
No, no, we didn't.

Kelli (06:06.353)
Not, I'm sure it happened. I'm sure it happened because you know, the more you listen to people, apparently this has been a thing with Gretchen. And we, I definitely said it. We said it earlier in the season. Gretchen uses her faith when it serves her.

Wendy (06:27.49)
Yes, she absolutely does.

Kelli (06:27.761)
So I'm sure there are posts out there that she has liked. We just haven't seen it though, and that's odd to me.

Wendy (06:36.182)
Yeah, it is odd. It is odd. But she did admit that after that happened, she did go back and reevaluate the people and the accounts that she follows. And she did unfollow a lot of accounts whose beliefs that didn't align with her beliefs. Well, Tamra gave us that number and she admitted it. Tamra gave us that number.

Kelli (06:57.705)
Right, right, she unfollowed like 200 accounts.

yeah, how would Tamar know that? cause she's screenshot.

Wendy (07:06.795)
Because that's what Tam- Well that's what, but that's what Tamar does. That's what Tamar does. You know?

Kelli (07:13.575)
Yeah, that's what I mean. I, listen, I believe Gretchen liked these posts. I believe Gretchen has certain feelings because if it's been a thing and Heather has heard rumblings of it over the years, then obviously it's true. I also believe that Tamara talks to content creators.

Wendy (07:33.646)
100 % she does. There's no doubt in my mind. There is no doubt in my mind.

Kelli (07:35.473)
Right, right, right. So, you know.

Wendy (07:41.676)
because she is a content creator. So of course she's gonna talk to other content creators. She has, right.

Kelli (07:43.621)
Exactly.

Kelli (07:47.472)
Exactly. And anyone who says why would she do that for the same reason Teresa did? To get these people to trash talk her castmates and gas her up. Like it's so obvious. Tamra had a horrible, horrible season when she came back, calling her good friend a drunk and an alcoholic over and over again. She looked horrible last season. She had to do like

Wendy (08:03.543)
It's all about.

Wendy (08:10.87)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (08:18.035)
damage control.

Wendy (08:19.52)
It's all about the public's perception. That's what it's all about and controlling that story as much as you can. And like I said, when we were watching OC,

Kelli (08:22.515)
Yes.

Kelli (08:26.173)
Yes.

Wendy (08:33.182)
things didn't add up because when we were watching it, well, one, knew Tamar quit, but right, we knew that before the season happened because it was out there, right? The other thing that was out there was that there was an altercation between her and Slade at a party where she threw a drink at him, which that never happened. That never happened. There was an altercation with her and Slade at the party, but not that there was a drink thrown. like, this is stuff that...

Kelli (08:50.781)
Yes, yes.

Wendy (09:02.764)
Listen, it's just, I don't like that. I don't like for the season to be spoiled. I specifically don't look at that stuff because I want to watch it fresh. don't want the season to be spoiled. And like Andy said, they signed contracts that says you're not allowed to talk about it.

Kelli (09:19.656)
Right.

And listen, we're, you know, we are content creators. We do this. We go on, we watch the shows and we give you our honest opinions. I don't want anybody, not that anybody is obviously, but I don't want anybody DMing us and, you know, trying to sway us either way. I want to give an honest opinion of who I like, who I don't like and how I feel about situations.

Wendy (09:46.026)
And based on what we've seen, not based on other stuff. Now, if what we're seeing is incorrect and skewed and someone gives us other information, which again, has never happened, that may change our opinion. And I think that is exactly what's happening is that she's out there doing that.

Kelli (09:48.093)
Right.

Kelli (10:03.431)
Yes. Listen, she does it on her own fucking podcast. She's, to me, she's getting, I mean, I'm starting to dislike her as much as I dislike Teresa because of the narcissistic behavior. But whatever. Tamra, not Gretchen.

Wendy (10:09.91)
Yes.

Wendy (10:22.894)
I was also surprised, yeah, no, no, I know. I was also very surprised to hear that Gretchen said, you know, she took a look at the accounts that she was following. She was following 4,500 accounts. Now, that's a tremendous number of accounts to follow. And I will say this, on our WeWine whenever...

Kelli (10:34.567)
Yeah, that's a lot.

Wendy (10:44.738)
page, I don't want us ever to be following that many accounts. I only want us to follow accounts that are relevant to what it is we're talking about, right? My personal page, that's a different thing. Like I don't care if I follow accounts that, if I follow more accounts than follow me personally, that's absolutely fine. Cause it's just my own personal stuff. it was her personal, it was her personal account, but she is a public figure.

Kelli (10:48.585)
Mm-mm.

Kelli (10:53.298)
Right, right.

Kelli (11:03.815)
Right. But this was her personal account, wasn't it?

Kelli (11:12.681)
She is. She is. Yeah.

Wendy (11:13.71)
Do you know what I'm saying? She's a public figure. So yeah, it was her personal account, but she's a public figure. And this is our public account, right? 4,500 is ridiculous. And again, like Andy said, when he said that, he's like, how could you even know what their posts? And it's true. What could your feed possibly look like if you're following that many accounts?

Kelli (11:23.209)
Yeah.

That's a lot.

Kelli (11:32.446)
Right.

Kelli (11:37.063)
Right, right.

Wendy (11:41.226)
And she said, I realized I was following a lot of left-wing accounts. I followed a lot of right-wing accounts. Back in 2020, when the election was going on, I followed a lot of these accounts because I wanted to see what was going on on both sides, which I could honestly, I can understand that. I can certainly understand that because I like to see what's going on on both sides too. I do.

Kelli (11:57.788)
Right. Right.

Kelli (12:04.093)
Yeah. And Andy said like, and by the way, you can follow whatever account you wanna follow. I do think that Andy could have held Gretchen a little more accountable, being that he is a gay man, has children. I do think he could have held her a little more accountable than he did. But honestly,

Wendy (12:12.27)
100 % right.

Kelli (12:32.709)
I think he's tired of Tamra. And I honestly think that that's why he went a little easy on Gretchen. Because we've seen him go very hard at people for certain things. mean, look at what, know, even Kelly Dodd, remember when he said, like, don't you think you're on the wrong side of history? Like, he went hard on her at that reunion. I feel like he could have went a little bit harder on Gretchen.

Wendy (12:36.354)
Yeah.

Kelli (13:02.643)
Part of me thinks he doesn't believe that she did it. Because of Tamra.

Wendy (13:07.616)
Yeah, I mean, it's hard to believe because of the way Tamar behaves and what her MO is, right?

Kelli (13:13.159)
Yep. Yes.

Kelli (13:20.349)
Well, Heather then says she's known Gretchen for 14 years. She's always been very kind to her family, but she has known other people for a long time that have been less than supportive, obviously, and it's hurtful.

Wendy (13:35.958)
Right, right. And that's also when she said she heard rumblings over the years about the rhetoric. And she said, but I chose to ignore it because...

I, that's not how I saw you because that's not how you treated me. And I feel like, you know, people show you who they are. I feel like they do. I feel like people show you who they are. Now, if that's not what she showed you, then that's probably not who she is.

Kelli (14:00.072)
Yes.

Kelli (14:09.329)
Right, and listen, I'm a very loyal person. Unless you really harm someone I love, whether it be emotionally, mentally, or physically, I'm not gonna hate a person just because someone I love hates a person. If there's a significant reason, of course. But I feel like that's kind of what Heather was saying. I have heard things, yes.

but I've never seen that side. So I can't just, like, did you see what Bramwyn did? Bramwyn from Salt Lake City at BravoCon? She was, I guess, taking photos. She wouldn't stand next to Gretchen. Listen, people can do whatever they want, but I do think that that was a little extreme. But okay, do, you know.

Wendy (14:42.722)
Right.

Wendy (14:54.006)
she wouldn't stick, yes.

Kelli (15:08.829)
You know, I think that was Heather's point. Like, I'm gonna go based off of how you treat me and my family. Because you can't possibly be homophobic or transphobic and love Heather's children the way you do. But again, we don't know the, you know, we don't know the depths of their friendship off camera.

Wendy (15:30.466)
We don't, but again, we don't know what the actual posts were that were liked. And that's where part of the issue lies. And honestly, when I saw that Braunwyn did that at BravoCon, I can understand why she did that because the court of public opinion is very opinionated and all they see is a picture. And if you see a picture standing next to someone and posing with someone who's accused of this,

Kelli (15:34.469)
Exactly, exactly.

Kelli (15:51.506)
Yeah.

Wendy (15:59.342)
If you associate with that, then you're going to be guilty by association and it's not fair and it's not rights, but it's the world we live in.

Kelli (16:07.761)
It is the world we live in. But by the way, I saw a picture of Gretchen posing with Captain Sandy and her wife.

Wendy (16:15.918)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (16:16.179)
So do they just not know what's going on or do they think it's not true and still pose for a picture with her? You know what I mean?

Wendy (16:26.252)
Right, right. Well, I think that they have nothing to lose by posing with a picture. But Bronwyn does. Right, right. So the next thing that Gretchen says is, when I went home, I hired a cyber analysis company. Because Heather, you said to me, I need to prove to you that it's not true. So I did. And I spent thousands of dollars getting a cyber analysis done.

Kelli (16:32.205)
of course they don't know, but I see what you're saying Brahman does. Brahman does. Yeah? No, you're absolutely right.

Wendy (16:57.042)
on these posts and you can see and she hands the report to Andy it's a 25 page report and the most egregious post is a fabricated fake post. The report says it came to the conclusion that it was a manufactured post and could not be authenticated and when Andy looked at the report he concurred with that. He concurred with that.

Kelli (17:21.427)
Yeah. And Tamra's like, did we have AI three years ago? First of all, yes, fucking genius, we did. But it wouldn't even matter because if it were AI, it could have been done today to make it look like it was three years ago. She's really not smart, Tamra.

Wendy (17:29.654)
Yes, we did.

Wendy (17:41.185)
No.

And Tamara said, well, it's probably a post that Instagram removed. Again, they would have known that.

Kelli (17:51.171)
No. Right.

Wendy (17:54.296)
She also said that, now again, there was no proof of this. The cyber analysis company continued to do a lot of research on a lot of the accounts that were tied to Tamra. Well, which accounts were tied to Tamra? Like, why didn't we find out that? That's what I would like to know. And how were they tied to Tamra?

Kelli (18:07.677)
Right, I totally agree with you.

Right. And if you can't build it into the reunion because it's too long, we should know about it now. Because these are harsh allegations. You're saying this woman is homophobic and transphobic. These are life changing for a public, for anybody, but for a public figure for sure. So come on, Bravo. If you have it, show it.

Wendy (18:41.73)
Right, right. So when she said that about the accounts being tied to Tamar, Tamar said, I will sue your effing ass. And Heather and Gina said, yeah, Heather and Gina was like, what does that mean? Right, I don't know if they were saying, what does it mean that I'm gonna sue your ass? Or what does it mean that Tamar was tied to the accounts? Because that's what I'm saying. What does it mean that Tamar was tied to the accounts? Because we don't know, right?

Kelli (18:50.929)
Always threatening to sue that Tamra.

Kelli (19:05.991)
Right, right, how, yeah, how?

Wendy (19:09.25)
So then Andy says to Tamara, well, how did you find that post? Well, she said, well, it's been cycling around social media for a long time. But by the way, it wasn't at this point, but at some point Shannon's like, you said you got it from iHeart. She said she got it from iHeart. And so which is it? Has it been cycling around? You got it from iHeart a year and a half ago? Why is it coming out now? Like Gretchen said, you just made up with her the night before.

Kelli (19:36.766)
Right.

Wendy (19:37.08)
You just made up with her the night before, so then all of a sudden you're gonna bring this out the very next night? Come on! How can you say it's not premeditated?

Kelli (19:42.695)
Right. Right.

Kelli (19:49.33)
Yeah.

Yeah, because she said she was sitting on it.

Wendy (19:56.63)
She said a year ago, but then she said, two years ago it came through Teddy. And they're like, but you just said, earlier you said it was a year ago. So like, what is it?

Kelli (19:59.594)
Two years, Yep, yep.

Kelli (20:06.919)
Yeah. And then she screams to Gretchen, you're a homophobic bitch.

Wendy (20:13.08)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (20:16.169)
It's crazy.

But she, well, we'll get there. But she gets mad at Emily for calling her something. I don't know. Yeah, no, she, she's not, know, Tamara's the, I mean, she's not articulate at all. She doesn't, she can't express herself, because then she starts yelling and calling her names like a two-year-old.

Wendy (20:34.134)
No. No.

Wendy (20:40.888)
Right. I mean, listen, Emily was mad about the fact that Tamar brought it up to Gina, because she was trying to implicate, like bring Gina into this. And she's like, well, I had to bring Gina into it, because if I say it, then it's always like, well, you did say it. And that's exactly the point.

Kelli (20:59.259)
And Gina says she was sorry she didn't bring it to Gretchen privately. And then Andy asked Tamara, why didn't you bring the post to Heather? And Heather says Tamara did. And Heather said, I don't want any part of this. Because she felt like Tamara was putting it into her lap to do something with.

Wendy (21:09.326)
Right.

Kelli (21:22.055)
Right, and then Emily asked Tamara, was that your intention? Why didn't Tamara just bring it to Gretchen? And then Tamara, instead of answering that question, she calls Emily condescending and then turns around and says, sweetheart. And then she's condescending to Emily. But she never answered the question, why didn't she bring it to Gretchen?

Wendy (21:36.312)
Right.

Wendy (21:42.136)
Right.

Kelli (21:48.795)
She brought the other thing to Gretchen, right? The roofy thing. So why didn't she bring this to Gretchen?

especially after they reconciled.

Wendy (21:59.776)
The night before.

Kelli (22:01.009)
Yeah. She's, mean, listen.

I don't understand how anyone could not dislike Tamara at this point. She's the worst housewife. She takes zero accountability. She's the messiest. And all while thinking she's the best housewife in doing her job. I mean, she said it on Watch What Happens Live. She does this to keep her job.

And I do think Andy sees it now.

Wendy (22:32.012)
Yeah, I mean, fact that Tamar was really going after Emily about her podcast, you know, and Emily's like, well, it's not on your network anymore. And she's like, yes, you do, sweetheart. We had to bring it back because when you went off on your own, wasn't getting the ratings. It is in both places. Yeah, it tanked. Yep, it is in both places. And I will tell you this, I won't listen. I mean, I only...

Kelli (22:52.849)
It tanked. She said it tanked.

Wendy (23:01.23)
Listen, I'm not really happy with Emily right now, but I still listen to hers, but I won't listen to it under two T's because they both show up. I only listen to it under her own.

Kelli (23:07.443)
Mm-mm. Right.

What's it under, under, other than two T's?

Wendy (23:14.476)
You have to look it up. It's, what is it called? Yeah, so look up Legally Brunette. It's a different picture and everything. You have to subscribe to Legally Brunette.

Kelli (23:16.071)
Okay, it's legally brunette.

Kelli (23:22.403)
I will not listen to anything on 2Ts anymore because...

Wendy (23:26.358)
Yes, you have to listen to it under legally brunette.

Kelli (23:32.69)
I won't, this must be it.

Wendy (23:37.996)
So then Shannon said, well, you called her Shrek for a year, which she did. She called Emily Shrek for a year.

Kelli (23:47.881)
I said that earlier in the season for crying out loud. Tamara has been so insulting to these women over the years, especially Emily, especially Emily.

Wendy (23:48.704)
And I know.

Wendy (23:55.862)
Yep. Yep.

Kelli (24:00.586)
Mmm.

Wendy (24:01.846)
Shannon then said, well, let's talk about who's the asshole right now.

Kelli (24:07.655)
Yeah.

Wendy (24:08.366)
And that's when Andy brings up, you know, we didn't show you the aftermath of that dinner in Amsterdam, but in the car ride on the way to the airport, we captured Tamra, Jen, Emily, Gina, and Heather. And that's when we saw them talking about how they searched for the post after that whole conversation at dinner, and they couldn't find it. They couldn't find any convincing evidence that she had liked that post.

Wendy (24:41.198)
And then Gretchen starts crying and he's like, and he's like, why are you crying? She goes, because I said that that's not who I am. That's not what I stand for. And I just feel like it's a personal attack on me. And it was, it was a personal attack on her. That's what Tamar's intentions were to attack you personally. She couldn't get you with the Rufy. She couldn't get you with the Rufy story. So she was gonna go with this.

Kelli (24:58.387)
Yeah, I agree with you. Exactly.

Kelli (25:07.121)
And honestly, I think that for the past couple of seasons, Emily has done Tamra's dirty work and now she's not anymore. And that's why Tamra has now turned on Emily. I really think so. And I think Gina did what she did this season for Tamra, you know, bringing this thing to Gretchen. But I think we see a shift at the reunion as well with Gina.

Wendy (25:15.778)
Right.

Wendy (25:29.944)
Well, she apologized. She apologized because, you know, that's not who Gina is.

Kelli (25:35.06)
So I think slowly Tamra's realizing she's got, not that she has nobody, but even Heather is like, yeah, Tamra tried bringing it to me and I told her I didn't want anything to do with it. Like nobody's falling for it anymore. Nobody's scared of you anymore, Tamra, which I can't understand why they were scared of her anyway. Look at the way she acts. Like all you have to do is remain calm and bring facts to the conversation. And she is like a cornered rat.

Wendy (25:46.221)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (26:03.707)
She doesn't know what to do, so she just starts hurling insults. mean, she's not, she's just not a good housewife. For 15 years I've been on this show. Now you were off for a couple years in there, and what have you brought to the show? We saw you get divorced. That was hard to watch, by the way, Tamara. And we saw you fake cry when Eddie, you know.

Wendy (26:03.906)
Yeah.

Kelli (26:30.429)
proposed, we saw you get married, other than that, that's all you have. Your own kids won't film with you. What does that tell you? Your own husband doesn't want to be on the show anymore because last season you got so fucking drunk, he was embarrassed. I don't even think we saw him much after that. She doesn't bring much to the show.

Wendy (26:51.66)
We didn't, and I don't know if you saw, after she brought up Sydney on the first part of the reunion, Sydney came out and she made her own post about it. And she was not happy and Simon backed her up.

Kelli (26:59.645)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (27:09.043)
We said it. This girl probably doesn't, again, this girl probably said, please don't say anything, and then this stupid, this woman puts, I mean, you want fame more than you want to be a mom, it is very clear, because you're putting this show before your children.

Wendy (27:10.723)
Yep.

Wendy (27:19.853)
Right.

Wendy (27:33.09)
And the sad thing about it is, you know, it's not even like you can say it's because she needs a job and she needs the money. Because we all know that Vena CBD is very, very successful. I don't know what percentage of that she owns, but she owns enough that she doesn't need to do this. She doesn't need to do this.

Kelli (27:52.476)
No, but it's the same thing with Vicky. I mean, Vicky was incredibly well off, but the show became her life. The show became her life. Yeah, no, I agree with you. doesn't, she shouldn't need the money at this point.

Wendy (27:59.788)
Right.

Wendy (28:07.416)
Right.

Kelli (28:09.469)
But man, is your kid pleading, like, leave me off the show. it's like you physically can't do it.

Wendy (28:18.39)
Right.

I know, I know. So then the next thing they do is they show us what we saw at the end of the season. This was shot on May 9th, 2025, before any trailers or episodes had air. This is when we see the message that Emily sent to Gina and where they talk to the person, if you want to test knowledge, test me and I can prove everything I'm saying. And the person on the line whose voice is disguised, you know,

tells about when she fake quit after the New Orleans trip and she returned, the first person she filmed it with Heather at the Costa Mesa, everything that this person said happened. the only way, and even Andy acknowledged it, the only way that this person could have known this if someone told them. And the only person.

Kelli (29:14.355)
Like Gina said, the call's coming from inside the house. Like that was the perfect, you know, metaphor for it, yeah.

Wendy (29:18.208)
Right. Yes.

Kelli (29:24.342)
Did you see Katie's face while they were playing that though? She was in like complete shock.

Wendy (29:24.747)
It's... Yes, I did!

Wendy (29:31.798)
Yes.

Kelli (29:35.186)
So Tamara asks, who is this guy? Which I, listen, again, I agree with her because when it happened with Teresa, we saw text messages, we knew who it was. I mean, all you had to do was listen to all about the bullshit one time and you would know that this was going on. The way they talked about Teresa and the way they talked about the other people. But then we saw it, you we saw physical evidence of them and then Melissa's old nose.

So Tamra is right in that sense. Like, well, who is this person and why don't we know the name and why aren't we seeing a face or an account or something?

Wendy (30:13.71)
Well, I think the producers do know, to be quite honest with you. I think they do know. I think they need, I think they know what they need to know.

Kelli (30:16.407)
I'm sure they do.

Kelli (30:20.734)
Listen.

I think the producers are the ones who found out and I think the producers are the ones who brought it to Jen, Tamra and Shannon. I'm sorry, Jen, Gina and Shannon. And had them sit down and arrange the phone call.

Wendy (30:39.212)
Yeah, it's very, very possible.

Kelli (30:43.229)
I mean, Tamara actually yelled at Andy, because he asked Tamara, how do you explain the guy knowing anything? And Tamara yells, it's not me. And he's like, well, don't yell at me.

Wendy (30:49.518)
Right.

Wendy (30:53.662)
Andy said this is bullshit. Andy actually said that.

Kelli (30:56.606)
Yeah.

mean, it is. If you wanna be a housewife, be a fucking housewife. Bring enough to the table where you don't have to do this bullshit.

I'm sorry, if you were that interesting, you wouldn't have to do this. If the women on Jersey Who Did It were that interesting, they wouldn't have to do this. They weren't, they suck.

Wendy (31:08.856)
Yeah.

Wendy (31:18.68)
But that's when Tammer goes into, I've been on the show for 15 years and we've never had this problem until you came back. And she said, I'm sure Slade is up to this. And Shannon's like, like, what?

Kelli (31:31.985)
Yeah, she's blaming Slade.

Wendy (31:32.958)
Shannon said, one of the things he said is what is that what went on in Amsterdam, you were upset that you didn't get invited to the upfronts on Monday and you threw a fit and called upper management because you thought you should go. Tamara said, well, we all knew that. And Tamara said, well, Slade is working overtime.

Kelli (31:51.633)
And Andy said, but Slade wouldn't have known that.

Wendy (31:55.702)
Right. Right.

Kelli (31:59.016)
Like the things that, well, I guess maybe he would have known that because Gretchen was at that dinner. But the other stuff Slade would not have known. I mean, Andy even said it, like he stopped him or he was like, but Slade would not have known that.

Wendy (32:13.612)
Right, and then Tamara is screaming and pointing her fingers on my children's lives. I've never done this. And then Andy says to Heather, what is your take on this? And this is when Heather really kind of laid it out. She's like, I find this very concerning.

Wendy (32:30.838)
And Gina says to Tamra, I feel like I've been set up because the only one that knew about the post prior to the season was you and I. Like nobody else knew it. So then all of a sudden, how could Slade set this up if he didn't know about it? How could he do that?

Kelli (32:46.151)
Yeah, camera said you should be upset. You were set up by Slade. Now, did you hear Shannon bring up prank phone calls?

Wendy (32:50.507)
Right.

Wendy (32:56.782)
no, was that now?

Kelli (33:00.691)
So, Tamara was flying off the handle and looking at Andy and saying, this is bullshit. And Shannon brings up the fact that, I think it was her and Kelly Dodd were getting prank phone calls or something. And Tamara had something to do with it. I forget exactly how it went down. I don't know if it was when those ghost phone calls were happening. Like remember I was getting them from Claudia.

Wendy (33:28.469)
yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kelli (33:29.381)
Yeah, I don't know if that's what she was talking about, but she was talking about prank phone calls and she insinuated that Tamara was behind it. And I think it was she and Kelly Dodd. Like, Tamara gave somebody their numbers. So maybe it wasn't the ghost phone calls, because that was really weird when that was going on. And I had it happen to me, so it was real.

Wendy (33:51.95)
Yeah, so Shannon says, said this on Watch What Happens Live, like, this is how I keep my job. And she's like, that's not what I said. Shannon, just shut up. No, that is exactly what you said, because we all saw it. And Heather said, this is a moment for everyone to say this is enough. I joined the show when my youngest kid was nine months old. He's turning 15. You've been on the show longer than me. You started before me. Things have changed. It's got to stop.

Kelli (34:05.747)
Yep, exactly.

Wendy (34:22.378)
No kids, no careers, no bloggers. This is about our friendship. It's about conflict and resolution between us. Anyone that arrives in this group and thinks that they're playing a game of survivor is sadly mistaken. Everyone needs to agree once and for all, this has got to stop. I was glad she said that because honestly, that needed to be said and she was the right person to say it because Tamera.

Kelli (34:49.031)
Yes, she was. She's the only one that Tamra has an ounce of respect for on the cast.

Wendy (34:53.216)
Right, exactly. Because if Shannon said that, she would just say, up. If Emily said that, she'd say, I'm taking away your podcast.

Kelli (35:01.363)
Yep, yep. So Andy asked Tamara if she thinks someone close to her is betraying her. And then she started blaming Slade again. And Andy did shut it down. He shut down her blaming Slade.

Wendy (35:03.458)
Then if a viewer.

Wendy (35:14.976)
I didn't see that.

Kelli (35:15.975)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, listen, I can't imagine he brings her back. However, she did just reconcile with Vicky. And it's very Teresa, Melissa, Joe Gorga reconciliation vibe to it. I think, I think that that's what this is. I think these people are reconciling because they cannot give this show up. This show has become their lives.

and everybody's gonna just sell their soul to the devil to stay on TV, basically.

Wendy (35:50.818)
Well, don't, listen, I don't agree with you on that. I do think that Vicki and Tamar would sell their soul to be on TV. And I know you and I disagree on this, but I do think that Joe and Teresa are family. And I always root for family. I just root for family and their connection is deeper and it should be not about the show.

even though it appears like it is, it appears like it's about the show, I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt. That's just me.

Kelli (36:21.383)
It's about the show.

Kelli (36:28.925)
They need to not roll cameras on Jersey for about two years and let's see what happens. Let's give it two years. We've gone this long. Nobody's missing it, quite honestly. Don't roll cameras for two years and let's see what happens. I miss early Jersey, like Caroline Manzo Jersey. That's what I miss, because it's been a load of shit for a long time. But I do think that that's why Tamra reconciled with Vicky.

Wendy (36:39.278)
Well, we are. We said we were missing it.

I'm missing it.

Kelli (36:58.077)
I think Shannon's too smart to ever get close to Tamra again. So we don't have to worry about that. So I think if Tamra comes back, it's because Vicki's joining the cast and now she thinks she has an ally.

Wendy (36:59.244)
Definitely.

Wendy (37:11.138)
Well, that's what I think too. I think that is why Tamar is going to come back because as soon as Andy gave Vicky her orange for season 20 as a full-time cast member, I was like, shit, now Tamar's coming back because why wouldn't she? Why wouldn't she? And listen, Shannon will play her part, but Shannon will not, she will not cross her boundaries. And I, at least I hope she doesn't.

Kelli (37:13.129)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Wendy (37:39.232)
I hope she doesn't. I think she's strong enough.

Kelli (37:40.571)
I think Shannon did a great job this season of keeping Tamara at arm's length. I will coexist. I will coexist.

Wendy (37:43.937)
I do too.

Wendy (37:51.502)
I hope she continues to do that. I hope she continues to do that. A viewer asked, if you could take back one thing from the season, what would you take back? And Andy says, Gretchen, we'll start with you. She said that thing I said about Tamar and the boy band guy. Okay. Shannon said to Katie, my reaction to you was too extreme. You're nothing like Alexis Bellino. And Katie appreciated that.

Kelli (37:53.702)
Me too.

Me too.

Wendy (38:20.824)
Katie said, think I said something about Jen and a confessional about having a strong taste for her and I regret it. So I was glad that, listen, I want Katie and Jen to be friends again. I think that they had a real friendship. I want them to be friends again.

Kelli (38:34.191)
I agree with- I agree, yeah.

But I will say, when Jen brought up the story about Nicole and I do think Katie's a liar. I don't think you can have this many things that are accusing you of being a liar and you denying them. Like, come on. There can't be this many discrepancies. Why would this woman Nicole lie?

I mean, we didn't hear it from her. We heard it from Ryan, but I don't know. I think Katie must be, I think Katie's lying about certain things, maybe not about everything.

Wendy (39:05.39)
She has no reason to lie.

Wendy (39:18.486)
Right. Listen, I think that may be true, but again, I still would like to see Katie and Jen get back together as friends. And I think that that door.

Kelli (39:27.283)
Well, they can't as long as Katie is okay with Tamra because Tamra is not gonna stop. She's gonna keep coming for Jen and Ryan. And if she can get Katie to do her dirty work like she did with Katie approaching that woman, Nicole, it's just never gonna happen.

Wendy (39:34.83)
No.

Wendy (39:47.47)
I think, and I could be wrong, but looking at Katie's reaction to that recording, I think that Katie may now be woke to what is happening. I hope, I hope, I hope.

Kelli (39:59.526)
Yeah, I hope so too. I mean, you cannot trust Tamara. She is nobody's friend.

Wendy (40:08.342)
No, she's not. So Heather said, it's not something I regret saying, but I wish I had been more vocal about the photo of Jen. And Emily said, I guess I'll go back to Katie last year. I wish I had formed a question better and I wouldn't want to bring up your children like that. I was glad to hear that she said that because that really annoyed me.

Kelli (40:28.883)
I was so glad she said that. I'm glad she took accountability. However, I think she should have just said, and this is just my personal opinion, because I really am glad that's what she apologized for. I wish she would have just said, Katie, I wish I never brought up your custody issues. Done. Not, I wish I worded it differently. Because bringing it up at all is bringing up this woman's children and a

Wendy (40:48.886)
Yeah. Yeah. No, you're right. You're right.

Kelli (40:56.445)
very difficult time in her life where it was like, you know, talk about the game of survival. Like she was just trying to survive and doing the right thing by her children. So she should have just said, I wish I didn't bring it up at all.

Wendy (40:56.472)
Right.

Wendy (41:04.269)
Right.

Wendy (41:09.826)
No, I totally agree with you. I totally agree with you.

Kelli (41:12.115)
but at least she took some accountability for crying out.

Wendy (41:15.148)
Yes. Gina said it wasn't this season, but I regret having asked you what you were wearing that day on the bicycle. And she was talking to Katie. On again.

Kelli (41:24.391)
Yeah, see? Like, not, wish I didn't say, is that an Asian, like, I wish I never brought it up at all. That was a good apology.

Wendy (41:29.272)
Right.

Wendy (41:32.832)
Right, right.

And then Gina also said to Heather, regret saying that you weren't funny. Like, I do think you're funny. And, you know, she's a little funny.

Kelli (41:44.636)
I think that Gina just tries to be, I think Gina's very sarcastic and just has that kind of sense of humor. And I think that Heather can appreciate that and have the same kind of sense of humor when it's not about her. If that were about anyone else, I think Heather would have thought it was hysterical, but because it was about Heather, she did not find that funny at all. I mean, when Gina said she was in fourth grade, like that's fucking funny.

Wendy (42:11.938)
That is funny. I don't think, right. And I don't think Heather had a problem with the, was in fourth grade. I think she had a problem with that. wasn't, know, nobody thinks Heather's funny.

Kelli (42:12.199)
Because Heather's a lot older than her. It's Bonnie.

Kelli (42:19.005)
Right.

Kelli (42:23.643)
Right, and she has been on sitcoms. I mean, you can look up her IMBD, I did.

Wendy (42:26.71)
Right. Yes. And Tamara said, sharing the picture of Jen. I mean, come on, that's all you regret?

Kelli (42:38.663)
have to be honest with you though, for her to say anything is a huge thing. I'm glad she said that because it was horrible. But that was horrible that she did that. She fat shamed that woman. And it's all because of jealousy. She's so jealous of this person.

Wendy (42:43.106)
Well, she had to say something. She had to say something.

She did. She.

Wendy (42:58.754)
I mean, there were so many things that she did that she could have said. That was the only one she could admit to, because it was Jen, because everything else she did was specifically to Gretchen, and she could never admit that that was wrong.

Kelli (43:02.109)
For sure.

Kelli (43:07.347)
To Gretchen. No, no, she's not gonna do that.

Wendy (43:13.282)
Jen said, there's two things for me, that I gave Shannon the feeling that I didn't appreciate the bridal party. And Shannon's like, no, know, Shannon was totally fine with that. And she goes, end the video that was hurtful for Katie. And again, I don't think that there was malice in that video. I don't.

Kelli (43:31.227)
No, but I think it's good she apologized for it. Because if they're ever gonna move on those two, she definitely needed to apologize for that. But listen, Shannon's reaction was so good. She was like, sweetie, that was nothing. Because Shannon, Shannon is a good housewife. Shannon knows how to play this game of housewives.

Wendy (43:33.979)
definitely.

Wendy (43:44.193)
Right.

Wendy (43:50.604)
Right, right. I agree, I agree. I think that Shannon is a good housewife. A lot of people do not agree with us. It's so funny. Shannon is very polarizing. Either you really like her or you really dislike her. There is not a middle ground with Shannon and I don't know why that is.

Kelli (43:55.656)
Yeah.

I know.

Kelli (44:05.587)
Yeah.

Kelli (44:09.373)
And know, people are like very, you know, come very hard on her for the DUI. And listen, obviously getting a DUI is a very poor act of judgment, obviously, you know? But I feel like she handled the aftermath of that very well. I mean, she is clearly going to counseling.

Wendy (44:26.966)
Owned it!

Kelli (44:34.169)
and getting the benefit of it, not like Tamara says she's going, because she's the same person. I just think that Shannon was very humble afterwards, very apologetic, took accountability. She may still have a cocktail, but I don't think she'll ever drive again and have a cocktail. Listen, I think that that was in the heat of the moment where...

Wendy (44:37.677)
Right.

Wendy (44:54.742)
Right, right, right.

Kelli (45:01.297)
She and Dom were probably out drinking. They obviously drank a lot together and they got into a fight and she just wanted to get the fuck out of there and made a very poor judgment, a very poor decision and got in the car and drove. I don't think she'll ever do that again. Karen Huger? It seems like this was a bit of a lifestyle choice for her. She did not care. She would drink and drive whenever she wanted because she was the grand Dom and just figured she could get out of it.

Wendy (45:29.101)
Even.

Even after Ray hired a driver for her. Mr. Blue Eyes. Right. Right. Right.

Kelli (45:35.707)
Where was blue eyes?

Kelli (45:41.277)
just think that, you know, I think that Shannon turned a very bad situation, you know, and I think she turned it into a learning lesson for herself. Maybe I'm naive, but that's the way I look at it.

Wendy (45:54.702)
No, I agree with you. I agree with you 100%. And I will also say this, like all these people that really do not like Shannon, I want to say, just look in the mirror, because I bet you at some point in your life, just because you didn't get arrested for DUI, I bet you at some point in your life, you drove when you should not have. Because I will say to you, I have at some point in my life, I am not proud of it.

Kelli (46:15.358)
Yes.

Right.

Wendy (46:24.16)
I am not proud of it and I am smarter today and I am a better person today because I have learned, right? And that's what we want as people. We want people to learn and to grow and to evolve and to judge somebody for a mistake one time. Listen, I think it's very harsh. need to look in the mirror and be real with yourself, right? Nobody says that DUIs are good. They're not good, but we're human.

Kelli (46:24.391)
Me too. Me too.

Kelli (46:42.408)
Yeah.

Kelli (46:47.751)
Right.

Kelli (46:52.009)
No, of course not.

Wendy (46:53.634)
We are flawed people, we make mistakes. It's how you handle the mistake that defines you, right? It's how you handle it. So if you're Karen Huger.

Kelli (46:58.579)
Right, right. And how you act afterwards.

Wendy (47:05.749)
Right, if you're Karen Huger and you've made the same mistake four times, you're beyond flawed. Listen.

Kelli (47:11.657)
I mean, she can't possibly ever get a license again, I would hope, right? She should never be allowed to drive again a vehicle.

Wendy (47:16.782)
I would certainly hope not.

I totally agree. Especially at her age.

Kelli (47:22.929)
I mean, I thought you lost your license indefinitely after three, but that might be just the state of New Jersey.

Wendy (47:28.886)
Right, right. I mean, at her age, she should not be getting a license anyway.

Kelli (47:34.173)
Now she probably should.

Wendy (47:37.538)
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.

Kelli (47:40.51)
Was that all with the regrets? Because then, you know, we think it's ending and Tamra's going on and on about how horrible this is. And it's an ambush. Like, bitch, please. You've done this to people over and over and over again.

Wendy (47:43.342)
I mean that, yeah.

Kelli (48:05.36)
And Shannon said,

There's just too much circumstantial evidence against Tamara. It's just too much.

And she's right. I think she's right.

Wendy (48:18.296)
I agree with her. I agree with her, but I'm sure she's going to be back for season 20.

Kelli (48:22.535)
Well, it'll be interesting. It'll be interesting to see if she does come back, who her allies will be, because she has, as far as I'm concerned, mean, Heather, I think that she and Gina will be okay, unless she turns on Gina the way she did Emily because of, you know, she's done being her minion. I think Heather has a good heart in the sense where she'll...

I don't think Heather ever wants to have an enemy on the show. I think if you make one wrong move like Katie did and brought up the paparazzi, you're never gonna be Heather's friend and you might want to sleep with one eye open. But Heather's never gonna do her own dirty work either. I think Heather and Tamara will be okay and Tamara will have Vicky. But other than that, I don't know. Her and Emily clearly aren't okay.

Wendy (49:13.326)
gonna be honest with you, I don't think that Gina is gonna be okay with her because of Emily. Because of Emily, with her closeness with Emily and what she did to Gina. Because Emily had Gina's back 100%. And Emily and Gina.

Kelli (49:18.291)
I don't either. Yep.

Kelli (49:25.16)
Listen.

before they kicked Tamar off the show. Tamar was not nice to Gina and Emily. At all.

Wendy (49:33.592)
Right.

Kelli (49:37.021)
So, you know, listen, I'm team Emily and Gina on this one.

Wendy (49:44.812)
Yeah, I am too. And again, I liked Emily for very many seasons. The last two seasons, I was not happy with Emily. I hope now, and the last two seasons, the common denominator was freaking Tamara. So I now that Emily sees who Tamara really is, that we get back the old Emily that we had before.

Kelli (49:44.837)
if that's how this road goes.

Kelli (50:01.98)
Exactly. Emily was doing Tamra's dirty work.

Kelli (50:13.885)
Yes.

Wendy (50:14.36)
Tammer came back. That's what I hope for.

Kelli (50:16.595)
But see, here's the problem. Now these women have to worry in the off season what Tamra is trying to dig up on them. Because you know damn well that's what she's doing. She's digging up whatever she can about these women. She probably did it years ago and has a bunch of shit in her back pocket.

Wendy (50:34.082)
Well she definitely did because she, I mean, she had this shit on Gretchen that was for several years ago when she didn't even know she was coming back.

Kelli (50:38.375)
Yup.

Kelli (50:41.885)
They better think long and hard about every decision they've ever made in their life back to fifth grade and just Margaret Joseph's it and put it all out there to begin with.

Wendy (50:55.702)
Yeah, I mean that would be the best way to handle it.

Kelli (50:58.523)
Absolutely. Because she's going to find it.

Wendy (51:02.424)
Just start out the season with a confessional. Okay, I've done this, this, and this. Right. Please forgive me for my sins. I will say five Our Fathers and three Hail Marys. If you're Catholic, that is what you will do. Whatever you need to do, whatever religion you are, then you'll do that.

Kelli (51:08.115)
So in sixth grade, I had a friend Shelby.

X

Kelli (51:20.649)
Exactly. Yes.

Yes.

whatever religion, whoever you believe in.

Wendy (51:31.598)
Just confess your sins. Just put it out there.

Kelli (51:37.063)
Yeah. Well, I'm not sorry to see the season go.

Wendy (51:40.758)
I'm not either. I'm glad we're done with it. I'm glad we're done with it. I'm actually looking forward to Beverly Hills. I know you are not, but I am.

Kelli (51:44.201)
Yes, I know.

Well, you know what, I saw the trailer, I thought it was a little boring, but I'm gonna try to be more positive, because I feel like I've been very, very negative, but I think it's because of Tamra and the whole reconciliation on Jersey. just, you I'm not buying it. But anyway, I'm looking forward to Beverly Hills, I'm really looking forward to Rhode Island. I know it's not coming out until 2026, but I think that's gonna be great.

Wendy (52:11.24)
me too. Me too.

Kelli (52:14.761)
So I'm just gonna try to have a more positive attitude. I'm watching the reunion for season two of Mormon Wives so then I can watch season three.

Wendy (52:24.544)
Okay, good. So, and then we will start talking about season three of Mormon Wives. So let me ask you this, did you happen to watch Southern Charm, the first episode? Okay, I did too. Didn't take notes. It seems to me like Austin and Craig are not doing well.

Kelli (52:28.712)
Yes.

Kelli (52:34.025)
I did. I did.

Kelli (52:39.259)
Me neither.

Kelli (52:47.577)
No, they're not. And I'm curious to see how that plays out. Because they open the season with that dinner with Whitney, Austin, Shep, and Craig. And then they go back, I guess, three months earlier. So we're going to watch it play out. But let me ask you something. Where do you stand on the Vanita Craig thing?

Wendy (53:01.153)
Right.

Wendy (53:06.978)
So I was going to ask you that too.

I like Vanita. I like Vanita. And I think Vanita is entitled to her own opinion. And I think the fact that she reached out to Paige is okay. And I think Craig is very immature.

Kelli (53:12.809)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (53:20.563)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (53:24.595)
So I agree with you, really like Vanita and I think she's entitled to her own opinion and she should reach out to Paige all she wants. However, I don't think she should have posted anything about Craig on her social media. That's your castmate, that's your friend. Keep it to yourself. And I don't blame Craig for feeling the way he feels. And I agree with you that Craig is immature. listen, if somebody was judging the way I reacted,

Wendy (53:36.832)
No, she shouldn't have. Right. No, I agree. I agree.

Wendy (53:45.216)
Okay, no, I agree. She shouldn't have posted it. Yeah, I know he is.

Kelli (53:53.652)
to a breakup on their social media on a public platform, I'd be like, what the fuck are you doing? That's my business, stay out of it. And I personally don't think Craig did anything wrong. Quite honestly now, I think Paige did fucking cheat on him. I think Paige was with that billionaire before she broke up with Craig. I don't care if she was, but I don't think he ever made any kind of indication whether she was or not.

Wendy (54:02.518)
Right. Yeah, no. You're right.

Kelli (54:21.071)
He never came out and said, no, she wasn't cheating on me. But he also never came out and said, yes, she was. It's not his responsibility to defend her actions. She broke up with him. He reacted. Game, it's over. It's over. And I think Vanita should have kept her mouth shut. But I like her and I like her on the show. But I think I'm Team Craig on this one.

Wendy (54:45.622)
Yeah, mean, listen, I told you how I feel. I do agree that she should not have posted it. I was very surprised to see Leva because I know it was Madison's bridal shower. So maybe that's the only time, because she's not on it anymore. So, right. So maybe she was just on this first episode because it was a baby shower. said bridal, baby shower. Maybe she was just on it because it was Madison's baby shower.

Kelli (54:54.473)
Yeah.

Kelli (55:00.361)
She said she wasn't gonna be on it anymore, yeah.

Kelli (55:10.493)
Maybe, yeah.

I love Sally.

Wendy (55:17.72)
Well, what do you think's gonna happen between Sally and Vanita?

Kelli (55:21.129)
I don't know, that's gonna be real interesting. I actually kind of feel bad for Vanita in this situation. I mean, listen.

They're not getting mad. I don't know. I mean, I feel bad for Vanina because I feel like, you know, they became very close, but I don't know if she's attracted to Craig and wants to get a little.

Wendy (55:44.044)
Right, no. I mean, according to, I think it was at BravoCon, according to, or maybe it was on a podcast, according to Craig, there's a lot of intermix ups and hookups on this season between many cast members. It's more than a triangle. It's more than a triangle. So I feel like there's gonna be some hurt feelings someplace, right?

Kelli (56:00.882)
I could see it. Yeah, I could see it.

Kelli (56:08.059)
Yeah. Why in the world is that guy Cory on it though? I really, really hope he was only on this first episode. I can't stand that guy.

Wendy (56:19.928)
He is the classic F-boy. His haircut, everything about him. I mean, I don't know why I went on right to his haircut, because I shouldn't have done that, because, but I just, he just is the classic F-boy, right?

Kelli (56:22.025)
Oh, 100%. Everything about him. Oh.

Kelli (56:34.973)
He just, he's such a fucking tryhard. Like how many different shows are you gonna try to get on, bro? Like, I can't stand him. And Molly, what is wrong with you? You had a band concert. You're not gonna go because you're talking to this chooch? Like, come on. And then she starts crying. And you see what happens, she starts crying. He's like, all right, relax. Like, he could have cared less.

Wendy (56:49.217)
I know.

I know, I know.

I know.

Wendy (57:02.23)
Yeah, like he, no, no, because he's an F boy. That's all he wants. That's all he wants. He's a manchild.

Kelli (57:07.249)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kelli (57:14.792)
Terrible so but all in all it was a great first episode

Wendy (57:17.846)
No, it was. And honestly, I will say this. I liked what Craig personally handmade for Madison. That was very sweet. mean, compared to the other thing he had made many years ago, which I never saw back then, he's really come a long way in his sewing abilities.

Kelli (57:24.379)
Me too.

Kelli (57:31.049)
He has come a long way. He has. He has. I hope he doesn't start drinking heavily again, but that's the thing. I think he has that personality where he just shouldn't drink at all. I think that Paige did bring out a better Craig. I think she brought out a really good version of Craig. And I hope he stays on that track.

Wendy (57:58.286)
I do too. I do too. That being said, I'm sure you saw at BravoCon, Shep made this video, well, he didn't make a video, but someone captured him talking about it on video, regards to Craig and Paige's breakup slash relationship. And Craig has been asked many times and he hasn't specifically seen it and is glad that Paige was not there. And he doesn't really want to comment on it because, and he's a little bit sad that

Kelli (58:08.563)
Somebody filmed him.

Kelli (58:25.224)
He doesn't.

Wendy (58:27.564)
His buddy brought it up, but he understands that he was just defending Craig even though he didn't need the defending, right?

Kelli (58:35.271)
Right. Yeah, I mean, why are we even still talking about this? Like she's moved on, he moved on, you know, he's not with that girl anymore, but his explanation sounded legit. Like, of course, if she's already moved on, you're like, this girl's giving me attention. me, you know, it was somebody from his past. Like, it all checks out. I don't think their relationship was a sham at all. I think they genuinely did have a relationship. I think she checked out at some point.

for whatever reason, if he was holding her back professionally, whatever it was, she had every right to walk away from that relationship.

Wendy (59:12.706)
think honestly, I think it was the geographical situation. She was not leaving New York. She was not leaving New York. Even though he says he was going to move to New York, she did not want him moving to New York for her because that is too much for her to carry. Right? I think...

Kelli (59:16.457)
Oh, I'm sure. Right. Right.

Kelli (59:28.839)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If he moved to, he, he, if he moved to New York, he definitely would have regretted it. And she's right. He would have blamed her eventually. And it's, it wasn't a good, yeah, logistically, it wasn't a good situation. You know, I did, I just started listening to it. Anna from Miami's, podcast with, ACE, but Anna's not on it.

Wendy (59:39.36)
Right.

Wendy (59:54.698)
god, just Ace, cause he drives me crazy.

Kelli (59:57.328)
He's with somebody else, Caitlin or something, I forget her name, but it was so funny what they were saying that they were like, cause they were both at BravoCon and they were, he was like, wasn't it funny to see like who showed up with like a big entourage and who didn't? He's like, literally like Kyle is Kyle Richards is walking through wherever and it was just her and Teddy. Like that was her entourage. He's like, and then Amanda Battula from Summer House brought like two carloads of people.

He's like, does anybody really, like, do you really need that many people? I thought that was so funny because I think, you know, I don't, I'm not a Kyle Cook fan at all. And it's made me not be an Amanda fan because I just, I don't know. whatever, I'm not going to get into it. You know how I feel about certain relationships. I think she's with him because they're on TV. I think otherwise she would never be with him. And

Wendy (01:00:55.064)
they're breaking up. I don't think it's gonna last.

Kelli (01:00:56.409)
I do too, but I wonder, are they or is this for a storyline for their new show that's coming out? you know, I'm always very skeptical of these people. Those two would be the people who would fake a breakup. I mean, I thought Kyle and Maurizio were faking. I wish they were. It's very sad. It's like, it's like when my parents, it's not as serious as when my parents got divorced, but I feel bad that Kyle and Maurizio broke up. Anyway.

Wendy (01:01:09.026)
You are.

Wendy (01:01:22.19)
You

Kelli (01:01:26.377)
I had wine tonight, I'm going off on a tangent. But I thought that was so funny that Amanda from Summer House shows up with two carloads of people and Kyle's just walking through with Teddy.

Wendy (01:01:38.894)
And listen, you know, they're not doing BravoCon again until 2027. So this is what I'm going to manifest. We will be going in 2027 and we will be staying at the Four Seasons because that is where they all stay.

Kelli (01:01:43.859)
Yeah.

Kelli (01:01:47.913)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (01:01:56.903)
right and we'll be pressed there.

Wendy (01:01:59.566)
Oh yes, we will definitely be press. We will be press staying at the Four Seasons 2027. That is what's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. I'm telling you right now. All of our listeners, you heard it here first. And by the way, if you could subscribe, share us and give five star reviews, that would really help us get there. Just in case, if you could help us.

Kelli (01:02:01.64)
Yeah.

Kelli (01:02:16.105)
Yes?

Kelli (01:02:20.157)
Yes it would.

Wendy (01:02:27.468)
All right, I don't have anything else and we're hitting an hour, so. All right. Bye.

Kelli (01:02:29.064)
Nah, we're good. We're over an hour. All right, bye.