RHOC-Defend, Deny, Deflect

RHOC-Defend, Deny, Deflect

Podcast Summary – RHOC S19 E7 “The Truth Will Not Set You Free”

The ladies are still reeling from Tamra’s explosive meltdown. Heather worries about her mental health, while Gina and Emily debate how far Tamra can go before an apology is required. Meanwhile, Gretchen fills Slade in on the drama, and Katie scrambles to defend herself.

The group takes an airboat ride in the Louisiana swamps—where Gina pushes through her water phobia, Shannon suffers an anxiety attack, and Heather is just plain miserable. Dinner brings more tension when Gina reveals she contacted the journalist directly and confirmed Katie did, in fact, tell Kiki the infamous “roofie” story about Gretchen. This spirals into a messy web of finger-pointing, denials, and shifting loyalties.

Off the trip, Tamra breaks down in therapy over her drinking, anxiety, and fractured friendships. Emily opens up about her struggles with Luke’s neurological issues, which causes tension with Shane. Later, Heather tries to reconnect with Tamra, but Tamra deflects, leaving Heather frustrated.

Meanwhile, Katie confesses she feels like a pawn—pressured to “hold the line” and protect Gretchen and Slade, even as she takes the fall. By the end, Gretchen admits she might need to call Kiki herself, while Katie reaches a breaking point: she’s done covering for anyone. Next week teases a lie detector test, Katie vomiting, and Kiki Monique making her grand appearance.

Takeaways

The episode highlights the convoluted nature of truth in reality TV.
Tamara's behavior raises questions about accountability and authenticity.
Gretchen's role in the rumor mill complicates friendships.
Anxiety and mental health are recurring themes among the cast.
Dinner scenes often escalate into drama due to miscommunication.
The portrayal of glam versus authenticity is a point of contention.
The impact of past traumas on current behavior is explored.
The dynamics of friendship are tested through rumors and accusations.
Therapy sessions reveal deeper issues but may not be genuine.
The anticipation of the reunion raises questions about unresolved conflicts.

Transcript

Wendy (00:01.459)
Welcome to We Wine Whenever, I'm Wendy. We are talking about Real Housewives of Orange County, Season 19, Episode Number 7, The Truth Will Not Set You Free. I don't even know what the truth is anymore with this show.

Kelli (00:03.84)
I'm Kelly.

Kelli (00:18.146)
I have no idea who is telling the truth. I'm gonna just say that at the beginning of the episode because I honestly, honestly don't. I mean, somebody gets caught in a lie, but it wasn't the person I saw coming.

Wendy (00:23.035)
No.

Wendy (00:33.741)
This is so convoluted where we are at right now with this. It's actually, honestly, when I finished watching the episode, and I just finished it just before we did this, I was so annoyed with this, O.C. I was so annoyed with it. This is not what it's supposed to be. That's not what this show is supposed to be. There was nothing real about this show. It's all bullshit.

Kelli (00:58.254)
Mm-mm. Mm-hmm.

Wendy (01:00.177)
So I'm gonna start with the recap. start out with the ladies talking about what happened with Tamara. Heather said, I've never seen her like this before. This is not normal, I'm worried. And I believe that. There's one thing about this.

Kelli (01:11.918)
However, they flash back to Bali when Tamara got up and ran away. So yes, Heather, you have seen her like this before.

Wendy (01:15.922)
Right.

Wendy (01:21.389)
Right, no, she absolutely has, she absolutely has. Gina is saying it was so clear whatever the circumstances with Kiki Monique, you weren't the one that said it. And she's talking to Gretchen at the time. But then at the table, she was kind of sliding back on that, meaning Tamara was sliding back on that, which she was. And again, I had to watch this back and forth three times to try and figure out what it was she was talking about.

Kelli (01:48.982)
It was very confusing.

Wendy (01:51.399)
So when Tamra told Gretchen that the rumor, when they were outside the voodoo thing, when it was Gretchen, Tamra and Shannon, Gretchen appeared to be like stunned. Like, what are you talking about? Like, I can't, like, this is craziness, right? She seemed genuinely surprised. We both said that, and I, right? Seemed surprised. So then when-

Kelli (02:04.632)
Shannon.

Kelli (02:11.981)
Yes.

Yes. Yes.

Wendy (02:22.065)
Tamara asks her, pulls her out before the dinner and Gretchen says, well, I talked to Katie and I believe her. She hasn't been the one who's lying to me. That's when Tamara got so mad. So when she came back to the table, she started like backsliding with her story. And I'm like, why is she doing this? It doesn't make sense. Now that being said, she was on Xanax and alcohol. So I mean that's...

Kelli (02:49.164)
Right, right. I don't think she knew what she was saying when she sat back down at the table.

Wendy (02:51.421)
That alone, I don't think she did either. I don't think she did either. No, and that's the problem. when you are living your life, like producing and not in your real self, when you are not coherent, what you're saying doesn't make any sense, right?

Kelli (02:57.188)
I really don't.

Kelli (03:06.168)
Yep.

Kelli (03:13.026)
Right, right. And Gina says she's going to therapy, but you can't be a dick. And Emily's like, well, you can be a dick, but you have to apologize for it. Which is true. But yeah, when she said, when Gretchen asked her a question and she said, it's none of your fucking business. And she had those eyes, I'm like, yeah, you gotta tap out now. You can't have a conversation with this woman right now.

Wendy (03:23.279)
Right, right, exactly. Right. So then we, yeah.

Wendy (03:39.08)
Mm-hmm.

No, no, she was not coherent. She really wasn't. So then the next morning we see Jen's on the phone and she's talking to Ryan. She's telling him what happened with Tamara and if he saw it on Instagram and of course he did.

Kelli (03:45.452)
Not at all. Not at all.

Kelli (03:55.95)
What the hell did he have on his head?

Wendy (03:58.851)
I think it was a red light thing to grow his hair.

Kelli (04:02.58)
my god.

That's fucking hysterical. I'm like, what is it?

Wendy (04:08.051)
I don't know if it's a thing to grow your hair. It's definitely a thing to grow your hair.

Kelli (04:13.322)
It reminded me of, remember the Martian on the Flintstones? I forget his name. No, that's a different Martian. Whatever, Gazoo? Gazoo, it reminded me of Gazoo.

Wendy (04:17.903)
yes, was it Marvin? No, no I know what you mean. Gazoo, gazoo.

Yeah, was something to grow his hair. Then we see Gretchen's talking to Slade and telling him that, know, Tamar dropped the bombshell about Katie telling the story to Kiki. And then she stormed off and quit. And then Katie's on the phone talking to Matt and telling him what happened. And then Emily goes into Shannon's room. I don't know. This...

Shannon and her hair being a mess. Is this a shtick or is this just who Shannon is? That she has all these... I mean, does she not have a brush? Because this is like the third time we've seen her like this.

Kelli (05:09.57)
This is what I'm thinking about this trip. I think that the other ladies have glam and I think Shannon does not.

Wendy (05:12.466)
Okay.

Wendy (05:17.853)
Okay.

Kelli (05:19.04)
And I think that, you know, Emily got all glammed up that morning and went and knocked on, and probably text Shannon and was like, I'm heading over to have our conversation with the cameras. And Shannon was probably like, shit.

Wendy (05:32.655)
Okay, all right. Well, that one makes sense then. Okay. Yeah.

Kelli (05:35.084)
That's what I think. Because even later when they go see the alligators on the boat, like she's putting her own lashes on and...

Wendy (05:42.419)
Yeah, mean, I feel like she does pull it together, but I'm like, why do we keep seeing her with her hair a mess? Like, why are they doing this to her? Right? Yeah. Yeah. And even the day before when Tamra came, she's like, let me fix your hair. Let me fix your hair. And I'm like, why? What is going on with Shannon?

Kelli (05:50.04)
Yeah.

What did Emily say? You're gonna get a brush? She's like, I feel like you're gonna forget.

When Tamra was in there.

Kelli (06:10.318)
I don't know. She needs to pony up for some glam though.

Wendy (06:11.315)
So then the ladies are talking. I don't know, does she? Actually, I'd rather her just be herself to be quite honest. I'd rather them all just be themselves. They don't need all this damn glam. They really don't. I don't think Gina's getting it.

Kelli (06:18.85)
That's true. Just brush your hair.

Kelli (06:26.894)
It's, no, it's just interesting to me that I think the whole glam thing started with Beverly Hills.

Wendy (06:34.983)
Probably.

Kelli (06:36.174)
And now all these franchises do it. Like, well, obviously we know Lisa Barlow brings her glam everywhere.

Wendy (06:43.387)
I think Erica Jane may have been the beginning of the glam, to be quite honest with you. I really do. I think that she can take credit for that. So then we see the ladies are talking about Tamara's posts on Instagram and how she posted at the airport about her mental health, which again, not really a great look.

Kelli (06:47.256)
Probably, probably, yeah.

Kelli (07:04.866)
Well, the point of her doing that is to make it look like it's everyone else's fault. But it's not everyone else's fault. Tamara is her own problem.

Wendy (07:11.749)
Right, safe face.

Kelli (07:19.276)
I mean, things change at the end of this episode, but typically, Tamra's behavior is her, like, it's her. It's not anybody else, and she just tries to put the blame on everybody else.

Wendy (07:33.435)
I agree with that. that's, mean, she's never accountable. She doesn't take, no matter what it is, she never just owns it. And she just gives you all the excuses of why it happened. And it's always deflecting to somebody else.

Kelli (07:40.845)
Never.

Kelli (07:51.093)
Absolutely, it happens, because I know it's in my note somewhere that she says that her daughter left her. Your daughter didn't leave you. You left your husband and kids for Eddie. We all watched it. So if your daughter still has a problem with that 10 years later, it's still your problem, not hers. You left, you chose to leave. She didn't choose to leave you, she was a little girl. No, we'll get there, it's in the note.

Wendy (08:01.501)
Mm-hmm.

Wendy (08:04.968)
Mm-hmm.

Wendy (08:19.175)
Right. Yeah. So then Gina is telling Heather and Emily, because they're in the car together, that Katie lied about this whole thing. I called the journalist and they're like, what? Gina said, Tamar had told me that Kiki Onik spoke to a very reputable journalist. Gina called that person up and then verified everything that Tamar was, and they verified everything that Tamar was saying. First of all,

Who is a reputable journalist? Why are we calling this person a reputable journalist? And... What? Are you kidding me?

Kelli (08:51.394)
Right. Exactly.

Kelli (08:58.478)
So did Katie tell Kiki and then Kiki told the reputable journalist? Is that what they're saying? Okay, not that Katie told the reputable journalist. It went to Kiki first and then the reputable journalist. So we have four steps of this communication. Supposedly Gretchen to Katie, Katie to Kiki, I'm sorry, three. Kiki to the reputable journalist.

Wendy (09:05.479)
That's what they're saying. Yes, that's exactly what they're saying.

Wendy (09:15.088)
Right.

Wendy (09:28.101)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Kelli (09:28.174)
three steps. It's like the game of telephone. So something clearly is going to get misconstrued somewhere.

Wendy (09:36.719)
Yes. So then Gina is saying, now here we are, we have to acknowledge what the truth is. How do you even know what the truth is, Gina?

Kelli (09:44.234)
Exactly. Exactly.

Wendy (09:46.513)
Gina said that she had hopes that, you know, Katie was not gonna be the liar. And now she feels worse that she was kind of like, you know, having hope for her. In the meantime, calls up Gina and lets her know that she's running late.

Kelli (09:56.61)
Whatever, Gina.

Kelli (10:01.838)
Crying. Crying.

Wendy (10:03.055)
Well, yeah, she was crying. She was having an anxiety attack. She admitted that when she got on the boat. She was having, yeah, yeah, she was having an anxiety attack. And you could kind of see it when, because Emily's like, I told her we were leaving. Like you were already, you could see that she obviously wasn't ready. Right, right. Yeah, no, she was having an anxiety attack. So the ladies...

Kelli (10:06.689)
Why?

Kelli (10:10.702)
I didn't hear her say that.

Kelli (10:24.0)
Yeah, I mean, come on.

Kelli (10:30.05)
Why are these ladies all wearing high heels to go on the airboat to see crocodiles? Did you see the shoes they were wearing?

Wendy (10:36.699)
I- it's so stupid.

Kelli (10:38.36)
Like not even hot, like stilettos some of them were in.

Wendy (10:41.597)
Well, Shannon was in stilettos, wasn't she?

Kelli (10:43.916)
Yes, and Emily, like, what are you doing? Jen was appropriately dressed, by the

Wendy (10:51.279)
I don't, I'm sure Gina had on regular shoes too. And I don't think Fancy Pants would have had on stilettos either.

Kelli (10:59.736)
She did not, she had boots on, they did have a heel, but it was a chunky heel, so I'll give it to her. I'll allow it, fancy pants, I'll allow it.

Wendy (11:05.619)
Okay. So the ladies, like I said, they're going to see the air on the airboat to see the alligator. Shannon shows up 20 minutes late, which honestly, 20 minutes in the big scheme of things is not that horrible. She apologized to the ladies. Emily's all bent out of shape that, you know, she kept, she said, leave without her. She should be here. I am so disrespectful. And Gina is telling Shannon that, you know,

Kelli (11:19.01)
Whatever.

Not at all.

Wendy (11:35.643)
Shannon's apologizing to Gina and Gina's like, this is something that genuinely brings me anxiety and Shannon's not quite getting it. And she's like, it's not about, right, is being on the water. Right, she's like, it's not about you. It's me being on the water. She's freaked, and she literally is freaking out a little bit. And that's when Shannon said, I feel bad I'm late. And Gina said, well, you should feel bad. Shannon said, well, I had an anxiety attack before she got there. That's why she was late.

Kelli (11:45.944)
Being on the water? Yeah.

Wendy (12:05.011)
She was having her own anxiety issue. So nobody acknowledged, even when she said it, like nobody acknowledged it, nobody was giving her grace for it. And not for nothing, Gina, you're the one to plan the damn boat trip. Okay, so you conquered it, but.

Kelli (12:19.595)
Yeah, if you were gonna have anxiety over it, why'd you plan it?

Wendy (12:22.929)
Are you dumbass?

Kelli (12:24.556)
Right, I'm not planning any trips to go on airplanes because I don't like it.

Wendy (12:28.915)
let alone with a camera and these crazy bitches, right? If you're going to conquer your fear, do it in the privacy of your own setting.

Kelli (12:31.062)
Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. They're not invited.

Kelli (12:38.862)
Airboat

Wendy (12:46.035)
And then Heather, Heather's like, doesn't like being on the water to begin with. So you could, and then they flash to another time where she was on the water. Heather does not, you know what I think it is with Heather? She doesn't like to not be in control. And when you're on these boats, you're not in control of anything.

Kelli (12:58.047)
Of course.

Kelli (13:02.722)
Have you seen, speaking of which, have you seen any videos of local, so we're in Jersey everybody, and know Hurricane Erin is hitting, and thank God, thank you Jesus. It's right, we're not getting any other impact other than the waves. But have you seen some of these videos with the boats in the water? I mean just watching it, I'm getting anxiety. my gosh.

Wendy (13:12.563)
Well, it's not hitting. It's off the coast.

Wendy (13:19.228)
Right the way.

Wendy (13:23.305)
I haven't seen the boats. really? No. No, I didn't see those. I was just watching the surfers and some of the surfers said they wouldn't even go in and it was that bad. Yeah, no, yeah, that's crazy. So Gina says she feels like she faced her fear and she survived. Okay, yeah, you did, Gina.

Kelli (13:31.885)
Yeah.

Right. Yeah.

Kelli (13:44.6)
How about when the guy told them that the male alligators are all deadbeat dads? So Emily's like, well, Tamra can just now refer to Slade as an alligator.

Wendy (13:48.338)
That was so.

Wendy (13:53.363)
That was funny. It was funny. It was funny because, you know, she did it in a confessional, right? So I like, I like when people have their snarky humor in a confessional because it's, it's just snarky humor. You know what I mean? It's not, it's not going to cause a fight. It's just snarky humor. That's what I, that's what I like it. Then they're back from that whole thing and Emily's talking to Shane.

Kelli (13:54.58)
It was funny, I'm sorry, that was funny.

Exactly.

Kelli (14:14.914)
Right. Yes.

Wendy (14:20.987)
And she's saying how she feels bad because, you know, she's not there for Luke, her son Luke, who's having these issues, you know, he was just diagnosed with the ARVID, the eating disorder, and they're trying to decide whether or not he's got the autism, but that takes a bunch of different appointments and it's a process. It's a process.

Kelli (14:36.3)
Yeah, that's a long process, not one therapy session, Tamara. It's a very long process to get that diagnosis.

Wendy (14:43.089)
Right, it's a process.

Yep. And she feels bad that she's not there to be a part of it. And listen, I can understand that. I mean, we're moms. We know that, you we do have to not be with our children at all times, but you're pulled. Like you feel like, I wanna be there, but I need to be here. But I wanna be there, but I need to be here. So we get it. We get it. Yeah. The ladies get all dressed up for dinner. When they go to the restaurant, I

Kelli (14:52.257)
Of course.

Kelli (15:06.604)
Yeah, she's entitled to a girl's trip.

Wendy (15:14.641)
They stop at this like oyster bar first and they're all eating oysters and Heather and Emily are arguing. Meanwhile, Gina is literally choking behind them on this giant oyster and they have no idea. And I don't know how they could not know because...

Kelli (15:31.31)
And they're just sitting there talking about nonsense. mean, first of all, they're arguing over who talks more. And the answer is clearly Heather. I mean, clearly. But of course, Emily winds up apologizing to Heather at the end of the conversation.

Wendy (15:37.553)
Yes!

Wendy (15:46.077)
I was just gonna say Emily apologizes and the ladies go upstairs for dinner. Yep.

Kelli (15:49.272)
Fucking ridiculous. It's so ridiculous.

Wendy (15:54.183)
Yep, and they go upstairs for dinner. Heather asked if anyone has talked to Tamra and Gina said, I have not. She texted me. Before she left, she brought up a rumor and it's really effing horrible. And I don't know what to do with these circumstances and Katie. I was definitely swinging your way. Gina said, I just want to know. So I called the journalist. I was like, what? Jen said, when did you call the journalist? And she's like, well, last night.

Kelli (16:19.746)
Yeah.

Wendy (16:24.623)
And she said to the journalist, what's happening? He said, Kiki Monique and Katie went to lunch and seven minutes into lunch, Katie brought up this thing about the naked wasted night. Gretchen suspected that she had been roofied and that she went to the hospital.

Kelli (16:39.01)
So they never said the word roofied. They said that supposedly the journalist said Gretchen suspected she got drugged at the naked wasted dinner. So they never used the word roofied.

Wendy (16:50.918)
Okay.

Okay, they didn't use the word roofie.

Kelli (16:55.692)
So I think, let the, yeah. So let the episode play out.

Wendy (17:02.533)
Okay. So Katie said, well, that didn't happen. And then Gina said, it's a credible journalist. Gretchen said, the thing I'm confused about, if this credible journalist never reached out to me to ask me about it. Now that I thought was the weirdest reaction I've ever heard, first of all.

Kelli (17:20.835)
Yeah.

Wendy (17:21.683)
Seriously, thought like, what? And then Gina's like, well, they're not gonna, this was so funny when she said, well, they're not gonna print it. And she's talking like, because they know it's not true. Like her Gina, like I was like Gina, they know it's not true. They know it's a lie.

Kelli (17:37.037)
Yeah. the thing is, well, and the thing is, is that it's such a bold accusation. And again, I really think Katie thought she wasn't coming back. And I think that's why she told all of these stories in the off season. And then got invited back and was like, she probably should have declined quite honestly, knowing how she was.

you know, talking shit the whole time. But they can't, what are they gonna do with that? It's such a bold accusation. Although they should have fact checked it with Gretchen. But I guess they just figured, you know, exactly.

Wendy (18:24.711)
Well, they weren't going to run it. So why are they going to fact check it? Why you're not going to fact check something you're not going to run. That's what Gina was saying. But Gretchen said, so if it's a lie and everyone knows it a lie, then why are we talking about it? Again, not really an appropriate answer.

Kelli (18:39.752)
No, because obviously if someone says, if someone said that I said that someone drugged me and I didn't.

Kelli (18:50.358)
I don't know if I would be reacting the way Gretchen did, but now we know she did say something.

Wendy (18:57.521)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kelli (19:00.653)
Her reactions are off.

Wendy (19:02.58)
And there's a reason they're off, because she's lying.

Kelli (19:05.164)
Yeah, and she's trying to figure it all out on the spot. She's not very good on the spot.

Wendy (19:09.521)
No, she's not. No.

And then Gina said, you don't care that she said that at lunch? And Gretchen said, of course I would care about that, but no one's showing me actual proof that that happened.

Katie said it didn't happen. is saying to Katie, why aren't you confronting Kiki? And you ever number call her. Jen's telling her that she's.

Kelli (19:36.163)
See, what should have happened at this point is Katie should have said to Gretchen right then and there, Gretchen, you know you enslaved told Matt and I and Jen and Ryan that the night of naked wasted, you were so sick, you went to the hospital the next day. Cause I personally think that's all Katie said. I don't know, I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong, but.

Wendy (20:03.121)
Well...

Kelli (20:03.95)
That would have been the time for Katie to say that to Gretchen. Like, fuck it. I know you're friends with her, you gotta protect yourself.

Wendy (20:14.587)
Yeah, that would have been the time to say it. But she didn't say it. And I know why she didn't say it. Because those were her only allies at this point.

Kelli (20:16.961)
Yeah.

Kelli (20:23.927)
I

Wendy (20:25.927)
Those were her only allies.

Kelli (20:26.42)
And Jen, man, Jen fell right in line. She fell right in line. Speaking of.

Wendy (20:30.651)
Yeah, because she's already tried to go against Tamara and you see how that went.

Kelli (20:36.3)
Yep. Speaking of which, Shannon Badour posted they went to a Def Leppard concert and it was her, Jen Pedranti, and two other women. So her and Jen are tight.

Wendy (20:52.219)
So Jen Interprofessional said, if I were Katie, I'd be dialing Kiki right now. Why are you saying this? What's going on? I'm like.

Wendy (21:03.355)
Katie said, I don't know, do you need blood? I didn't do this. Katie says to Gretchen, you shared that story with us at Matros, Matros, whatever it's called. Mastros, that's it, Mastros. And then in her confessional, in her confessional, she says, Katie, Jen, Gretchen, myself, Ryan and Matt and Slade all went to dinner last fall and Gretchen shared that story. So.

She did say there that you shared that story with us.

Kelli (21:37.903)
Katie said that Gretchen and Slee told the other four that at the night of Naked Wasted, she felt sick, got up the next morning, went to the hospital and they did a toxicology report and they found drugs in her system. That is what Katie said. Jen said Gretchen did say she was very sick after Naked Wasted night. That's all Jen said.

Wendy (21:52.263)
Right.

Wendy (21:59.889)
Right, right. So Jen admits that she heard that part of the story. So why wouldn't she have heard the other part of the story? That, like what Katie's saying is true. She was obviously there. she, she only heard half of it?

Kelli (22:09.428)
Exactly. Exactly.

Kelli (22:16.79)
And honestly, it's surprising that Gretchen would have said that, that they found drugs in her system, she said.

That's accusing. If you're saying I felt so sick and didn't, I didn't know what was wrong and I went to the hospital and they did a toxicology report and they found drugs in my system. You're alluding to the fact that you were not a willing participant in taking any kind of substance. So you are accusing someone of drugging you.

Wendy (22:49.169)
Yeah, mean, then Jen said the only thing that she said was that she got so sick from the drinks. Jen said, what,

That's all that was conveyed to her. And in her confessional, she said, Gretchen never said she got roofied.

Kelli (23:04.94)
Right, which she probably didn't say, got roofied. Right, Gina does accuse Gretchen of saying something though. Like Gina's like, I think you said something.

Wendy (23:07.939)
I was sitting right there, roofied, right, right.

Wendy (23:18.875)
Well, we actually, we find out that she did say something. Katie in her confessional says, to use Heather's words, let's be clear. And that's when she said exactly what you just said. Gretchen told Jen Rineslade that she found drugs in her system. Gretchen said, what's been hard for me is that each one of you have come to me in my ear about Katie. I'll be honest, it feels like a lot of you want me to not like Katie. And Gina's like, well,

Kelli (23:23.107)
Yeah.

Wendy (23:48.347)
you came to me about Tamar over and over and over again, and I would listen to you. But for some reason, when I come to you with a Katie, you don't even want to hear it. Gina said, that makes me think that maybe you did say.

Wendy (24:05.307)
She slipped me a roofie.

Gretchen says, guys all defend your friend Tamar and I can't defend my friend who I haven't had anything weird happen to me. That's a weird response.

Kelli (24:18.87)
No, mean, listen, I mean, this is when I still believed Gretchen, but I got that. Like, you guys want me to just go against this woman because you've all had issues with her, but yet here I am and I've had issues with Tamra for 12 years and so have all of you, but you want me to show her grace? Like, I get that, but now knowing what we know that Gretchen lied, it's like, how do you say that? And,

Wendy (24:34.365)
Right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, she did. Yeah.

Wendy (24:45.277)
Right.

Kelli (24:46.2)
How are you letting your friend take the fall right now? She's getting pummeled and you're sitting back and letting it happen.

Wendy (24:54.845)
Yeah. Yeah.

Gretchen

Kelli (24:59.086)
Mmm.

Wendy (25:02.096)
Heather says we feel scared and and we've talked about this like what happens next meaning about Katie lying so then this

Kelli (25:08.59)
and go into the bloggers with shit.

Wendy (25:11.131)
Right, right. So this is the last dinner of the trip and they all cheers to Gina throwing such a good trip and that they'll see each other back in the OC. And they get back to the OC and Jen's telling Ryan about the mechanical cock in Louisiana. We didn't see that happen, right? In real time? I was like, wait, I don't remember that.

Kelli (25:28.75)
Now we didn't see it happen. we didn't see it happen. That was pretty funny though.

Wendy (25:33.459)
And then that was funny. Then Shannon's on the phone telling her daughter, you know, she just got back from New Orleans. Gina's giving all her kids the gifts she bought them back. Okay. Then at 34.21 minutes into the episode, Tamra appears. She was gone from filming for seven days and we couldn't get

Kelli (25:56.248)
Mm-hmm.

Wendy (26:02.075)
a whole episode without her? We could, we didn't even get a half an episode because with the commercials, we didn't even get a half an episode without her. Seriously, this is why Tamar is the way she is. Because she thinks that she carries the show because the producers make her carry the show.

Kelli (26:04.066)
Yeah, like come on producers, do better. We didn't even get a half of an episode.

Kelli (26:17.272)
Absolutely.

Kelli (26:21.28)
Absolutely.

Yep, yep, same shit as Teresa. Same shit as Teresa. You keep allowing this bad behavior, rewarding the bad behavior, you're gonna continue getting bad behavior.

Wendy (26:38.813)
So then we see her, she's going to her therapist office, she's in there crying, she says she's been super anxious Lee, and she's been fighting with Eddie. I mean, I feel bad for Eddie to have to even live with her, but.

Kelli (26:51.574)
I feel really bad for Eddie. I feel really bad for Eddie.

Wendy (26:57.287)
She said after she got back from New Orleans, she went to Big Bear because she wanted to be by herself and she wanted to isolate. But then she realized that she really wanted to get back because she really wanted to go to therapy. Just an FYI, that was a lie. Because I heard her on a podcast say, if it wasn't hers, it was another one, that she went to therapy as soon as she got back, then she went to Big Bear, and then when she came back to film, that was her second therapy session. So there's a lie right there.

Kelli (27:25.26)
That's interesting. That's very interesting.

Wendy (27:26.705)
Yep, yep. And she also said that the first person she filmed with from the cast was Heather. So then, you know, we're going to see that next.

Kelli (27:38.67)
But she was telling the psychotherapist that people were yelling at, everybody was yelling at her. Nobody was yelling at her.

Wendy (27:44.477)
Well, she blacked out. She doesn't remember. She did say that too. She doesn't remember. Yeah, because she tells the therapist that she confronted Gretchen and the therapist asked like, what was her intention when she confronted her? And this didn't make sense to me at the time. She's like, I wanted her to give me the chance to believe her. Now I played that back three times. I was like, that makes absolutely no sense. Believe her about what? Because we didn't know about the other conversation that had happened.

Kelli (27:46.574)
She doesn't remember.

Wendy (28:14.161)
That's again why this show aggravates the crap out of me. You can't edit it this way because you give us a false story. This is what is an overly produced reality show. It's bullshit. It's bullshit. It's absolute bullshit. Just want to say that. I was so aggravated with this episode. I really was aggravated.

Kelli (28:22.723)
Right.

Kelli (28:30.114)
I totally, totally agree with you.

No wonder your mood's been off this week. no, you just watched it today.

Wendy (28:36.755)
I just watched it today and this was not the day for me to watch it.

Kelli (28:44.696)
So I loved this. Tamara says she's afraid of not being liked and that's why she's careful about what she says. She is the most reckless person with her words I have ever seen on a reality TV show. She blames her dad for leaving her mom and Sydney for leaving her. Your fucking daughter didn't leave you. You left your family. You left for Eddie. It's documented.

Wendy (28:57.586)
Yep.

Yeah.

Wendy (29:08.669)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (29:13.716)
on the show, we watched it happen.

Kelli (29:20.534)
I mean, it's amazing how she tries to rewrite history.

Wendy (29:24.017)
Yep. mean, she does it on the daily. She does it on the daily. And then she goes on to tell the therapist that, you know, it was a mess going into the dinner because she tried to call Teddy and she didn't answer. And so she took a half of Xanax. Right. She took a half of Xanax. I don't want to hear that again. I took a half of Xanax. I mean, not for nothing. I'm going to tell you this. The lowest dosage

Kelli (29:27.832)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (29:40.216)
So it's Teddy's fault.

Kelli (29:49.23)
I don't think it was a half.

Wendy (29:52.787)
of a Xanax is I think 0.25. It's not even 0.5. So did you take a half of a 0.25? did you have a... Like what is a half of Xanax? I want to know the milligrams. Right? Like, I don't know.

Kelli (30:05.74)
Right, what'd take?

Right, because if it's 100 milligrams, then you just hook 50.

Kelli (30:15.66)
And that would knock me on my ass. I'm not as that next girl, but.

Wendy (30:18.715)
Yeah. Yeah. And then she had only two drinks, which another thing she said, another thing she said on a podcast, remember when she walked into Shannon's room, the glass, it was actually champagne that was in the glass. Remember I said it was like, I thought it was tequila. It was yellowish. It was champagne. She had champagne in that glass. She admitted it was champagne. Heard that on another podcast.

Kelli (30:34.784)
Yeah, you said it was yellowy. I thought it was clear, but-

Kelli (30:43.64)
Well, I guess that's a little bit better than tequila. I don't know though, champagne hits you hard too. Anything mixed with Xanax is going to hit you hard.

Wendy (30:46.171)
It is.

Wendy (30:51.963)
Yes, whether it's a half or a whole, it depends on the dosage. you know, stop saying a half is Xanax. Stop trying to minimize it. Stop trying to minimize it. What, does she have a pill cutter with her? Seriously? I mean, did you bring your pill cutter with you? Come on.

Kelli (30:56.514)
Right. I don't think she took a half.

Kelli (31:02.87)
Right, right, right. Yeah.

Wendy (31:09.555)
she aggravates me.

Kelli (31:12.514)
Me too.

Wendy (31:13.715)
Then she says that she's, you she gets, her therapist says, well, obviously things need to change when you get triggered when you're drinking, a different part of you comes out. I'm like, that's actually, no, that's the part of her. Tamar says, you know, then I go leave and I go home and none of them call me. Nobody calls me. No one's a bit concerned about my mental health and where I was at. And now we know that's not true.

Kelli (31:28.524)
Yeah, exactly.

Kelli (31:42.659)
I that. I'm sure all of them reached out to her.

Wendy (31:43.516)
It's not true!

I'm sure, well, we find out that Heather did. I mean, we find out on the show.

Kelli (31:49.228)
Right, and she didn't respond. So I'm sure they all did that.

Wendy (31:54.173)
Yeah.

Her therapist says she has a very wounded heart because of all this and her trauma.

Kelli (32:04.846)
Stop playing into it. This is why nobody should do therapy on TV. They just shouldn't.

Wendy (32:09.395)
Right, now we're at 38.02 and that's the end of that scene. So we had three and a half minutes of her sitting in therapy. And it was the worst three and a half minutes of my life. And it probably took me 15 minutes because I had to keep rewinding it because it wasn't making any damn sense. Then we see Emily's in the kitchen with Luke and Keller and Luke isn't eating.

Kelli (32:17.304)
BULLSHIT

And you're never getting it back.

Kelli (32:27.574)
It made no sense. It made no sense.

Ha

Wendy (32:39.953)
And the kids are going somewhere. So Shane gets them off. They're going somewhere to a friend's house and Luke is gonna take his food with him. And Emily says in New Orleans, Luke kept calling her like over and over again. And Shane is talking to Emily about the therapy. And she said, you know, he's not good since the therapy. She's like, you know, I got back and now he's like talking like a baby to me. And Shane's like, well,

Like he wasn't doing that when you weren't here.

Kelli (33:11.086)
That's interesting, isn't it?

Wendy (33:12.441)
Well, I think he's right to be quite honest with you. Emily's like, you know, telling Shane it's neurological issue. That's why we're having all this testing done. She's like, I'm not disagreeing with, but he said, I'm not disagreeing with you, but if it's neurological, then why do you get frustrated? And, you know, I do think that part of it is for him acting out to get attention. That's what kids do. I mean, listen, I know I've...

firsthand experience, not with autism, but with other mental health issues, they act out to get attention. He's very close to his mother. He knows that he can manipulate the situation with her by doing certain things.

Kelli (34:01.822)
I agree with you, I think that he's gonna behave differently with Emily than he is with Shane because of who Shane is and who Emily is. She's clearly more sensitive and that's okay. Shane's very honest and I like that. What I have a problem with is people on social media criticizing Emily, saying that, why is she bringing this out now? This doesn't just happen. Yes it does.

because my daughter was nine years old, never showed any signs of anything, and stopped eating. And we had no idea why. We threw a very long, horrible, you know.

Yes, thank you. Found out she had anxiety and that's how she coped with it. And she was nine years old and it started out, we thought it was like separation anxiety, how he was like hugging her for so long, Luke with Emily, like Tess didn't want to be away from me. she, you know, so anyway, it was a long, very long process. So I don't like that people are criticizing her, basically making it like she's making this a storyline, which she very well may could be, but.

Wendy (34:49.299)
Process.

Wendy (35:03.091)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kelli (35:18.44)
This can happen at nine years old where something like this just happens out of the blue. And that's just when it presents itself. I personally think the kid has anxiety. But I think I feel that way because of what I've gone through. Yeah.

Wendy (35:35.079)
Because of your experience. Yeah, because of your experience. mean, listen, mental health disorders are, they're all different. affect many people in different ways and anxiety comes out in one person one way and comes out in another person another way, right? So it's very hard for us as a viewer to...

It's her child. Of course she's gonna feel a certain way about it. And anyone to criticize her for feeling that way, it's crazy. It's absolutely crazy. Right.

Kelli (36:01.091)
Absolutely.

Kelli (36:05.762)
Yeah, and it's just who she is and who Shane is. here's what I think the problem is that Emily, for some reason, needs Shane's validation for her feelings. And he's not giving it to her, but I think the reason he's not giving it to her is because the way she's communicating it to him, she's saying, you don't understand how difficult this is for me. I feel like the weight of the world is on me.

Shane's going to feel a certain way about that because he's proven to be a hands-on dad. rightfully so, she certainly deserves it. Just went away on a girls' trip and Shane took care of everything while she was gone. So I think, I mean, listen, it happens in my own house. Like, when you say things like that, the other person's like, well, hello, I'm here too.

Wendy (37:01.168)
Right.

Kelli (37:01.866)
I think that's why they're having a hard time. She wants validation from him and I get that, but you have to communicate it differently. She's making it like she's doing all of this on her own. You don't understand how different, yes, he does understand because he's going through this with you. You have to acknowledge that.

Wendy (37:19.761)
Right. Right. I mean, he even so much as said, I'm getting frustrated because you're just saying like, because I'm not crying and because I'm not crying and I'm not upset the way you are. It means that I don't care. we are reacting. We're both experiencing the same thing. I'm just not reacting the same way as you are because that's not how I react. I could, right. And I could see that being frustrating for him. And I could see it being frustrating for her too. Not like.

Kelli (37:28.227)
Right.

Kelli (37:34.253)
Right.

Kelli (37:40.376)
Right. It's just not him.

Wendy (37:48.199)
You don't realize that you're projecting, because that's what she's doing. She's projecting, like, you know, I'm doing everything. And well, yeah, he is too. She's just, listen, it's a tough time.

Kelli (37:59.691)
It's a very tough time. I think they're gonna be fine, Emily and Shane. Things like this only bring you closer. You know, my husband drives me up a wall, crazy. But in situations like this, like he always shows up and he's very, very supportive and good in situations like that. So I think they're gonna be fine, but it's so funny though watching it from the outside and I'm like,

Wendy (38:07.762)
Mm-hmm.

Wendy (38:24.113)
I do too, I do too.

Kelli (38:29.682)
like if she just said it a different way. But meanwhile, Eric and I could probably have the same damn argument because I'm saying it how Emily's saying it. But watching it from the outside, I'm like, well, this is what she should do. Like I'm an expert.

Wendy (38:38.257)
No, and

And I'm sure when she watches it back, she probably is like, shit, now I'm like, yeah, like if we watched our lives back, we would totally redo so many things that we've done. So it's very easy for us to be armchair quarterbacks here, right? So then Heather meets up with Tamara. Heather gets there, she orders her hot tea. Tamara shows up and she gets her sparkling water.

Kelli (38:46.434)
Yep.

Kelli (38:51.081)
Absolutely, absolutely.

Absolutely.

Wendy (39:11.781)
Again, this is all for the camera. Heather says to Tamara, what happened? Tamara said, talked to Gretchen and I was really believing what she was saying. How she reacted when I had said to her about the roofy thing.

Kelli (39:13.838)
for sure. They probably just did a tequila shot in the parking lot.

Wendy (39:34.119)
Tamar said, I said to her, did you at any time tell Katie that you had to go to the hospital? Now we see this, we see her say that. We never saw that. We had no idea that that conversation happened. We didn't, right?

Kelli (39:52.367)
So this is when they're in the car and Gretchen says, I did, I did the next day go to the hospital, I was so sick. She says it very, very low. And then they show her confessional and Gretchen says, I did not go to the hospital, but I felt so sick, I probably should have gone to the hospital. Gretchen, are you that out of practice from this because you haven't been on the show in so long that you didn't think they were gonna show us both of those?

Wendy (39:54.237)
Right.

Wendy (40:20.701)
Right. Yeah.

Kelli (40:25.288)
I mean, that was wild. That changed everything.

Wendy (40:29.171)
It absolutely changed everything. It absolutely changed everything. So, and not that I'm excusing Tamar's reaction or I'm excusing Tamar's behavior, but at least now it makes sense why she was wanting to believe Gretchen. I was like, what do you mean you want to believe her? What is it you want to believe her about? Like, I had no idea. It made no sense.

Kelli (40:54.06)
Right, right. And she wanted, clear, and again, I'm not defending Tamara. I mean, but she probably wanted to go into that dinner, which is why she asked Gretchen, like, do you wanna bring it up now? Like she wanted to go in as a united front.

Wendy (41:13.519)
Right. Right.

Kelli (41:17.142)
What's interesting is we saw Gretchen, Jen and Katie on the couch before they went to the dinner and Gretchen tells them about this story and they're like, so surprised. Meanwhile, they know that it happened.

Wendy (41:38.577)
Right. Right. Right. And that means that when Gretchen heard it for the first time, supposedly from Tamra when she was outside the voodoo thing, it wasn't... She wasn't surprised by that. That was a... The whole thing was an act. And that's such bullshit. Gretchen, no. You don't get to come back another season. Sorry, you blew it. That's it.

Kelli (41:39.608)
Right?

Kelli (41:55.894)
Yes. Yes. Yep.

Kelli (42:04.916)
No, yeah, right. You're gonna be a one and done, just like Alexis.

Wendy (42:09.169)
Yeah, that yeah, sorry.

Kelli (42:13.4)
I had high hopes. I had high hopes.

Wendy (42:14.692)
Yeah, yeah.

Kelli (42:18.455)
What will be interesting is if Katie's now vindicated because Gretchen has proven to be a liar and if Katie will come back next season

I mean, nobody's talking to her, so I kind of feel like no.

Wendy (42:30.003)
I don't, yeah, I don't think it's gonna happen. I don't. I don't. So Tamara said, I had a little bit of suspicion, then it triggered me. I knew going into the night that I was gonna be really upset. So then she tells Heather that she took the half as annex. And then she's crying. And she says she feels like she's on an island all by herself. Like, and Heather's like.

Kelli (42:35.648)
I know. I know.

Wendy (42:57.585)
What the fuck? I'm here. I was worried about you. I called you. I spoke to you that night. You hung up on me.

And then I texted you, you okay? Where are you? You didn't respond. Then you're talking on social media. You did several podcasts before you even spoke to me.

And Heather says, Tamar, do you not understand how that might be upsetting? She didn't. Tamar's like, no, how about you understand where my head was? So then when Heather backed off.

I mean, in her confessional, she explained why she backed off because she wasn't getting anywhere with Tamar at that point, and she wasn't going to. But honestly, Heather, it doesn't matter where you are with Tamar, you're never gonna get anywhere with her because she is who she is. It's always all about her. It's always all about her, regardless of what you're trying to tell her. Even if you're there holding her hand, which you literally were there doing, you were holding her hand and she's still not listening to you, because she's still playing the victim.

Kelli (43:46.531)
Yes.

Kelli (43:52.151)
Right.

Kelli (43:58.093)
Right, right. mean, yeah, like you said, like Heather said it, like she does not want to hear what I have to say.

Wendy (43:59.347)
That's what.

Wendy (44:03.205)
No. Yeah, because then she's like, you're making me feel like I'm a bad person, Tamar said. Sorry, Heather, that I didn't make you feel comfortable when I was at home in a fetal position. And Heather's like, that's not what I'm saying. She's like, I was trying, I reached out to you. And then that's when she said, do you know what it's like to live when your daughter doesn't talk to you and in the meantime, your best friend gets brain cancer?

Kelli (44:18.136)
Yeah, like.

Kelli (44:28.194)
Yeah, like stop bringing up your daughter. This is her one request and this is why she doesn't talk to you. You keep fucking talking about her on air. It's her one request. Don't post me on your social media and don't talk about me on air. And you can't do anything but talk to her or talk about her.

Wendy (44:45.287)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Yep, it's, you know, she's not gonna change. Listen, I am aggravated with OC. I don't want to see Gretchen again, ever. I'm pissed, I'm pissed. Yep, but you know what? I don't wanna see Tamara either. I mean, I haven't wanna seen Tamara for a long time. I still don't wanna see Tamara. I still don't wanna see Tamara.

Kelli (44:59.904)
No, now i'm pissed now i'm so pissed that she wound up to be the liar

Kelli (45:11.308)
I mean, I don't think it was good that they brought her back, but.

Wendy (45:16.273)
Well, the producers think that they can't carry a show without her, because they couldn't do an episode without her. They couldn't do one episode without her, which is bullshit. Two. Two. Two.

Kelli (45:24.93)
How many seasons was she off? Three? Two? Three?

Wendy (45:31.283)
And you know, the rumor is, you know, next season is going to be season 20. Season 20 is a big deal. So...

Kelli (45:38.296)
I heard this.

They're gonna be bringing OGs back and sprinkling them in here and there.

Wendy (45:45.263)
Yeah, I think that that's what's going to happen. But listen, I'm here for bringing Vicki back. I'd like to see Vicki again, but I don't want to see Tamara.

Kelli (45:52.834)
Definitely bring Vicki back, especially since she and Tamera beef him.

Wendy (45:56.773)
I don't want to see Tamar. Take Tamar out. If you want to sprinkle her in, you can sprinkle her in in the 20th season. But I don't want her full time. I don't want her back full time. I don't. I don't. I don't. And I don't care if that's a non-popular opinion. If you don't feel the same way as me, I don't care. I don't want to see her.

Kelli (46:04.49)
I don't either, I'm not a fan at all.

Kelli (46:14.904)
How about her saying that when she quit Andy and Alex Baskin, which by the way, what is he doing? Is he still producing these shows, this guy?

Wendy (46:24.453)
Yes, yes.

Kelli (46:26.156)
They begged her to come back. Andy and Alex called her and begged her to come back.

Wendy (46:34.481)
I don't know, Alex Baskin is getting a lot of heat because of the Valley. Because he produced the Valley. And the word on the street is even though the Valley's ratings were good, it was very dark and the season took a turn with the whole Jacks thing and the whole...

Kelli (46:39.266)
Why?

Kelli (46:55.864)
Well, I think what it comes down to is protecting bad behavior. you know, Teresa, Tamara, they talk shit. They, you know, think the show revolves around them. Okay. Jax was physically abusive to his wife and that was covered up by Bravo. And if Alex Baskin is the producer, he was covering it up too. Somebody, I think I was listening to Bros and Shows and they...

Wendy (47:01.404)
Yeah.

Wendy (47:13.437)
Right.

Kelli (47:26.774)
Allegedly, they refer to Alex Baskin as Jax's alleged coke buddy.

Wendy (47:34.543)
Really?

Kelli (47:36.776)
Maybe it was just a joke, but they said that.

Wendy (47:39.805)
Hmm, that's interesting.

Kelli (47:41.356)
And then of course he was like, of course I'm talking about Coca-Cola.

Wendy (47:45.075)
Of course. That's interesting. Yeah.

Kelli (47:46.253)
Yeah. Yeah. they also brought up a good point, Bros and Shoes, when they were recapping the reunion of the Valley real quick, because I know we got to finish OC, but they said, how come that story about the meet and greet with Danny and saying the thing about the short, I'm a sucker for short skirts or whatever, he said, didn't come up with the reunion. They were like, because it's bullshit, because it didn't really happen. And I thought that's right, because remember when you and I talked about it,

Jason said he didn't hear it, Brittany said she didn't hear it, and only the pink boots guy was their credible witness. So that must have never happened because it never even got brought up at the reunion.

Wendy (48:21.373)
Right.

Wendy (48:26.024)
Yeah.

Kelli (48:27.274)
All right, back to Osei.

Wendy (48:28.755)
Back to O.C. So Heather reaches out and grabs her hand and says, you know, I'm glad you're doing better. I want to be there for you. You know, you can always call me or text me if you just want to vent. OK, so now we're done with that scene. Thank God. Next, see Katie's talking to Matt and Matt asked, how did the Kiki thing end?

Kelli (48:43.992)
Thank God.

Wendy (48:53.251)
So the final night we're sitting around the table and Gina comes in and says, Gretchen, I want you to know, I called the reporter and he confirmed that Katie did tell Kiki. Katie asked Matt if he heard Slade talking about any of this naked wasted stuff. Matt said, yeah. Katie said, what did he say? Matt said, I can say this, you didn't make it up. Katie said, no, I didn't make it up. Matt said, that's all that really needs to be said. So then,

In her confessional, after New Orleans, I felt like I'd been thrown under the bus. Gretchen had the opportunity to tell the truth that she was sure that Tamar had drugged her the night of Naked Wasted. And Jen backed up Gretchen and trying to protect her tells me everything I need to know. I was like, all right. So then they were like, call Kiki right now, get her on the phone.

Matt's like, I don't know why you need to call anyone. This is not your story. Like, it's not. He's right.

Kelli (49:56.783)
Right, right. Well, she did perpetuate it though, by telling Kiki. She moved the story along.

Wendy (50:00.723)
She, yep, she did.

Yeah, she did. But you know,

Kelli (50:08.536)
She's not lying, which is a good thing, but she is the reason it's being talked about on this season.

Wendy (50:14.449)
But so at the same time, this is conversations going on. Jen is out with Emily and Gretchen, right? Gretchen asked Emily like, what's going on with her kids? And Emily's telling her about her son having the eating disorder. Jen is telling Emily that she wants to talk about this whole situation. She said, Jen saying, I told Katie to own her shit. I was like, I'll support you as long as I can, but what the fuck is going on? Gretchen said, when I start to think back about it and I'm

Am I being naive? And Emily's like, yeah. Then Gretchen and her confessi... Yeah, yeah. And then Gretchen and her confessional said, Katie originally told me that she had no problem calling Kiki and addressing it. Katie said, I texted Kiki and I asked her to speak with me on camera. She didn't respond. Gretchen and her confessional said, in the car ride, she said, if I call Kiki, she's just gonna lie. Okay.

Kelli (50:48.846)
She's really playing it up, Gretchen.

Wendy (51:11.813)
Then they show us the scene in the car where Jen said, why don't you just do it? Katie said, I don't want to do it. Katie said, you really think she's going to say I lied? No, she's going to save herself, which I agree with her. And I'm thinking.

Kelli (51:23.212)
Well, mean, Katie can't ask Kiki to go on camera and talk about it because Kiki's going to be like, you told me that and Katie's going to be like, you're right, because Gretchen told me that.

Wendy (51:32.465)
Well, right, but I'm thinking, this is what I'm thinking now, now that we know that this all came from Gretchen. I'm thinking Gretchen told her to tell Kiki. I'm thinking like, you know, I think Gretchen's hands are dirtier than we think. I don't know that Katie would have just, why would she have just called up Kiki and put out this information about Gretchen?

Kelli (51:55.207)
I go back to what I said where I think Katie really didn't think she was coming back and she was just spilling all the secrets, anything she could to whoever would listen. But when Katie said that Slade called Matt and said, tell Katie to say Gretchen never said it and that she has to hold the line to protect Gretchen.

Wendy (52:13.808)
Right.

Wendy (52:17.637)
Yeah. That's crazy.

Kelli (52:22.062)
I mean, do we believe that Slade would do that? Yeah, we do. Yeah.

Wendy (52:24.307)
Yes. Yes. Yes, I do. I do. I do.

Kelli (52:30.84)
So basically, Gretchen said it. I really think she probably said, I went to the hospital, they did a toxicology report and they found drugs. I don't think the word roofie was ever used and I think that that's why there's so many holes, you know what I mean? But so this must be why they do the lie detector. And you heard somebody say, Shannon say, it proves nothing.

Wendy (52:50.972)
Yes.

Wendy (52:56.955)
Right, she said that, it's inconclusive. Yep, yep. And she also said, I don't think the right questions were asked.

Kelli (52:58.154)
Awesome.

Kelli (53:04.748)
Wendy (53:05.937)
So like you're saying right now, the question is drugs or Rufi, right? So did you ever say that Gretchen was Rufi? No. Did you ever say that Tamar gave Gretchen drugs? It depends on how you ask the question, especially if that's what the... Allegedly, Right.

Kelli (53:11.416)
Right, right.

Kelli (53:25.122)
Yeah, listen, she could have been doing coke that night. I'm not accusing her of it, allegedly. I'm not accusing her of it, I'm just saying that we're learning now that cocaine is very well liked by a lot of the franchises of Bravo. So we don't know. So her saying they did a toxicology report and they found drugs in my system, well,

Wendy (53:35.932)
Right.

Wendy (53:44.765)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (53:53.603)
But did you do drugs Gretchen? Did you smoke weed? Are you talking about weed? Like what are you saying? It sounds like you're trying to portray it as somebody gave you something and you were not a willing participant. But that might not be, but she might, you know, she might've smoked weed and there was weed in her system and that's what she's saying. So it's all, yeah, it's all cloudy. And it's not fun to watch.

Wendy (54:23.483)
No, it's not. It's really not. It's not because the reason it's not is because it's bullshit. None of it is real. This is reality TV. This is supposed to be real housewives of Orange County. All of this is made up bullshit. You just scripted it. You just scripted bullshit.

Kelli (54:31.02)
Right. Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kelli (54:42.85)
Right. And that's why I'm so surprised that people coming for, I don't love Emily this season, but I'm so surprised that people for coming at her for sharing her son's story. We saw Jacqueline Larrita do it and brought so much attention to it. Positive attention, awareness. Like I'm happy Emily's doing that.

Wendy (55:04.477)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (55:11.626)
I had never heard of what her son had before this. Like, just, you know, this is the type of thing I want to see. This is why I watch these shows.

Wendy (55:16.697)
No. No, I never heard of it. I never heard of it either.

Yeah, I know. mean, I'm so disgusted by this. I really am.

Kelli (55:28.322)
Wait till you watch Miami, because that, I was, I got through this episode, but Miami, I'm like, is this fucking over yet? I'm so tired of the nonsensical arguments. It's just stupid. It really is, it's annoying.

Wendy (55:30.823)
Wendy (55:48.591)
It really is annoying. mean, even at the end of this episode, Gretchen says to Emily, I feel like I'm gonna have to call Keke, you know, because I feel like something weird's going on there. And if it's made up, I'm gonna be devastated. And then Jen and her confessional said, just playing devil's advocate, if Gretchen did say this, why would Katie go and even reveal this to a blogger? Really, Jen? Really, Jen? Are you kidding me?

Kelli (56:12.0)
Exactly.

But that's it. That's her saying, like, we all heard it, but not everybody was running to a blogger.

Wendy (56:20.124)
Right.

Wendy (56:23.763)
So on next week's episode, the thing I am excited about, it's Gene the Machine's 96th birthday.

Kelli (56:30.23)
Okay, so I watched it last night, so I did not watch it on Peacock, so I watched it on my DVR and the scenes from next episode got cut off. So it's good.

Wendy (56:41.405)
Okay, it's Jean the machine's 96th birthday. We have the lie detector test. Yes, Katie said, I'm not covering for her anymore. Then we hear Katie's throwing up like after the lie detector test or something. And then we see Kiki Monique out to lunch with Gretchen and Gina. Next week.

Kelli (56:48.448)
that's next week already.

Wendy (57:09.809)
I'm still aggravated. I'm still aggravated.

Kelli (57:10.346)
Okay. Well, the thing is, that everybody doesn't know that Gretchen lied yet. So now we have to watch the rest of a season with them not knowing that Gretchen lied. That's going to be annoying as fuck.

Wendy (57:26.344)
Yeah.

Kelli (57:27.426)
Because we know she lied.

Whether Katie went and told somebody, that's a moot point in my opinion now. Gretchen lied. Gretchen told Katie that this happened. Katie repeated it. Not the best thing in the world, but Gretchen really said it and she's denying it and she's letting her friend take a really hard fall. Where she could very easily be like, you know what, this is what I said.

Wendy (57:37.713)
great. Yeah.

Wendy (57:57.413)
Yeah. Yeah. Wait, what episode are we on? Seven. I'm so aggravated with this show.

Kelli (58:02.454)
No, I was having.

So we have the rest of the season to go with them not knowing that Gretchen's lying.

Wendy (58:14.451)
Because the lie detector test is inconclusive.

Kelli (58:18.07)
And we know Jen is not going to, we know Jen doesn't do anything because she's still BFF's regression. So we know, you know, she doesn't come to Katie's defense.

Wendy (58:32.711)
This is very interesting to me. It really is. mean...

When do they find out? How do they find out? I heard that they're not getting screeners anymore. I don't know if that's true or not. Which means that the...

Kelli (58:44.13)
Maybe they found out with us just now. Now they have to know before the reunion, right?

Kelli (58:55.48)
Wow.

Wendy (58:59.112)
Right.

I mean, they haven't filmed the reunion yet for OC, right?

Kelli (59:06.188)
I was just going to ask that because I'm curious to see the seating chart. Who's where?

Wendy (59:10.353)
I don't think I had, I don't think, let me see.

Kelli (59:14.132)
It does make sense for Tamara to have a first chair now, of course, because she's in the middle of all this. But who gets the other first chair? Katie?

Wendy (59:22.023)
Yeah, I don't know. I don't think they filmed it yet, did they? Have I heard anything about them filming it?

Kelli (59:26.826)
or I mean, they won't give Gretchen first chair if she's a friend of, right?

Wendy (59:31.044)
no, Gretchen's not getting first chair. Forget that. No.

Kelli (59:34.06)
Yeah, so who's the other first chair? It's gotta be Katie. If it's not Katie, then what are we doing?

Wendy (59:36.749)
Wendy (59:42.917)
Yeah, it's gotta be. It's gotta be Tamara and Katie.

Kelli (59:43.83)
It's gotta be Katie.

Wendy (59:49.435)
Yeah, I agree.

Kelli (59:51.072)
unless you're gonna put Gretchen there because she's the liar.

Wendy (59:53.467)
Well, yeah, but she's a friend of. And they want to paint Katie as a liar. They want to paint Katie as a liar.

Kelli (59:56.565)
Exactly.

They really do.

The producers did her way dirty. Super dirty.

Wendy (01:00:06.823)
They did. They really did. They really did.

Kelli (01:00:11.054)
I'm telling you, these producers, I, oh, I don't know if it's true or not. I saw a real quick thing on social media that Louie, Teresa's Louie is completely backing Todd Napola in his lawsuit against producers. I saw one, one post about it. I didn't look into it any further, but I just laughed. He 100 % backs Todd.

Wendy (01:00:25.235)
Does that surprise you?

Does that surprise you?

Kelli (01:00:41.034)
And I thought, well, I only saw one post, so maybe it's not true. Maybe somebody put that out there and it's not true. I hope for Louie's sake that it's not true, because if he and Teresa are trying to get a spinoff, this is not how you do it. I doubt it's true too.

Wendy (01:00:55.699)
I doubt it's true. I seriously doubt it's true because I don't think he's posted anything. I mean, I don't think he's posted anything.

Kelli (01:01:00.598)
I think it was on, it was like a Facebook post by some other, you know.

Wendy (01:01:03.587)
Yeah, it's probably not true. I mean, it probably is true in reality, but I don't think anything's been posted about it. I mean, I think he mentally backs him, but I don't think he's put anything... Right. I don't think he put anything out about it. Which by the way, I don't know if we mentioned, Teresa did pay off all her taxes. Her tax debt is clear. Unfortunately, she's married to someone whose tax debt is not clear, but hers is.

Kelli (01:01:09.899)
Right. Right.

Exactly, exactly. But don't say it, Louie. You're not gonna get your spin-off. And you need the money.

Kelli (01:01:24.684)
Yes, she did.

Louis has not.

Kelli (01:01:31.372)
Right, good, I'm happy to hear that.

Wendy (01:01:35.013)
I am too. I'm happy for her too. So we're going to have to wrap this up. Thank you for watching and I know, no, no. Thank you for watching and listening. Please subscribe, give us five star reviews and tell your friends. Bye.

Kelli (01:01:40.012)
Yeah, let's do it. we're over an hour. Nobody likes to listen to us that long.

Kelli (01:01:50.904)
Bye.