RHONY-Trauma, Tears, and Truths

RHONY-Trauma, Tears, and Truths

Trigger Warning:

This episode contains discussions of sexual assault, which may be distressing for some listeners. If this topic is triggering or uncomfortable for you, we encourage you to prioritize your well-being and skip this episode or fast forward through the discussion. If you or someone you know needs support, please consider reaching out to a trusted friend, counselor, or an organization like the National Sexual Assault Hotline at 1-800-656-4673. Take care of yourself

RHONY Season 15, Episode 15: "Paradise Lost"

The Puerto Rico trip takes an explosive turn as deep-seated issues and personal traumas surface. Jessel unintentionally stirs tension between Sai and Erin, leading to confrontations and tears. The group temporarily reconciles but fractures again when Ubah and Brynn clash over accusations of name-calling and harmful comments.

Brynn reveals her struggles with past trauma, including sexual assault, which deeply affects the group and shifts the tone. Miscommunication escalates as Ubah denies knowing Brynn's history, creating more mistrust. Emotional confessions, accusations, and apologies dominate the night, leaving the group exhausted and raw.

The next day, Brynn contemplates leaving but decides to stay for planned activities, only for production to cut the trip short due to unresolved tensions. Despite some attempts at reconciliation, deep divisions remain, with Ubah and Brynn unable to fully mend their relationship.

The episode ends with reflections from the women during the opening credits shoot, as they each process the events. Erin tries to move forward, Sai feels betrayed, Jessel remains empathetic, Jenna offers grace to both sides, and Ubah strives to forgive while maintaining boundaries. Brynn focuses on personal growth but struggles with the fallout from her actions.

Takeaways

• This episode contains discussions of sexual assault.
• Alcohol can heighten emotions and reactions.
• Misunderstandings can escalate conflicts quickly.
• Personal struggles can influence behavior on reality TV.
• Apologies may not always be received well.
• Accusations can have serious consequences.
• It's important to be mindful of what is said when drunk.
• The impact of childhood trauma can manifest in adult behavior.
• Reality TV can blur the lines between entertainment and real-life issues.
• Understanding and empathy are crucial in resolving conflicts. Brynn's behavior was a significant trigger for others.
• Uba deserves more grace from the audience.
• Manipulation in relationships can lead to emotional turmoil.
• The importance of accountability in reality TV.
• Forgiveness is a complex process in friendships.
• Podcasting dynamics can affect content quality.
• Public perception can be harsh and unforgiving.
• Reality TV often blurs the lines of personal relationships.
• The impact of emotional fallout can linger long after events.
• Navigating relationships requires open communication and understanding.

Transcript

We Wine Whenever (00:01.014)
Hi, welcome to We Wine Whenever. I'm Wendy.

Kelli (00:03.636)
I'm Kelly.

We Wine Whenever (00:05.272)
Tonight we're going to be talking about Real Housewives of New York, Season 15, Episode 15, Paradise Lost. But before we begin, I'd like to give a trigger warning. This episode contains discussions of sexual assault, which may be distressing for some listeners. If this topic is triggering or uncomfortable for you, we encourage you to prioritize your wellbeing and skip this episode or fast forward through the discussion. If you or someone you know needs support, please consider reaching out to a trusted friend.

counselor or an organization like National Sexual Assault Hotline at 1-800-656-4673. Take care of yourself.

Okay, so we jump into a night three in Puerto Rico and Aaron is saying never again. Jessel told Cy that Aaron said it was only Brynn and Cy talking shit about Jessel. So this goes back to when they were outside on the lounge chair at the pool and they were all talking, it was Jessel, Brynn and Aaron.

Kelli (01:18.071)
Mm-hmm.

We Wine Whenever (01:18.229)
No, it was Cy, Brynn and Erin. And they started talking about Jessel. Then Cy told Uba about it. And Uba told Cy that she needed to come clean with Jessel. So, Cy went to Jessel and she came clean and Jessel went to Erin afterwards and she was all upset.

Kelli (01:23.021)
Right, right, right, right. It's high-bring.

Kelli (01:30.444)
Yes.

Kelli (01:45.867)
Mm-hmm.

We Wine Whenever (01:46.784)
And Erin's like, you know, maybe you should, you know, this is the last time I'm going to stick up for you again. Like I was just trying to, you know, be there for you, which she really wasn't. No, no. And then Erin goes in and sits down and she's like, maybe your husband should apologize to Cy for calling her bipolar. And then Cy tells Jessel that she was offended by that. And Jessel didn't realize that she was.

Kelli (01:58.103)
You wasn't.

We Wine Whenever (02:12.171)
that she was that offended by it. know, Sy starts crying and Jocelyn gets up and she goes over there. She apologizes to her. She's like, listen, I'm so sorry. And I think that at that point they were kind of past that.

on and signed yes on brand all hug and they state decided to go get a drink

Kelli (02:33.229)
You know, I gotta be honest with you, did, I mean, I understand Sai being upset over the bipolar comment, especially since her mother struggled with mental illness. But she just got done saying, I just ignore Povit. I just ignore him, it doesn't matter. And then she got so upset.

We Wine Whenever (02:44.117)
Right.

We Wine Whenever (02:56.332)
I mean, this is what I think happened. First of all, that was, I think, the day before when they were outside at the pool, right? I think that was on day two. This day is later on in the evening, and they have been drinking all day. They had been drinking all day. And you know what happens when you just, you get emotional and things that didn't bother you before now bother you.

Kelli (03:13.261)
Good point. Yeah.

You get emotional.

Kelli (03:24.438)
Very true.

We Wine Whenever (03:25.204)
and everything becomes heightened. And I didn't really think about that to be quite honest with you. so, cause I watched this episode, actually watched it. I didn't take notes because you had texted me, it's really good. And I was like, I gotta watch it because I know if there's gonna be spoilers and I have to watch it. So I watched it, I didn't take notes. And then I rewatched it again today and I took my notes and I was like, you know what? The more I watched this episode,

Kelli (03:43.201)
Yeah, of course.

We Wine Whenever (03:55.69)
the second time, the more I see that at that point, they were just all drunk. I mean, obviously not Uba and not Jenna, because they weren't really drinking, but everyone else had been drinking quite a bit. So then Erin, Sy and Jessel, they all hugged they decided to go get a drink and they're all good. And they go into Raquel and Jenna's room and they're all agreeing that Uba's overreacted and that she needs to stop calling Bryn a whore.

Kelli (04:03.713)
Right. They don't drink, yeah.

Kelli (04:08.781)
You're right. You're absolutely right.

We Wine Whenever (04:23.591)
Uba comes down the hall and she walks in and she's like, what's going on? And Erin said, you really need to stop calling Brynn a whore. She's like, I didn't call her whore. I told her that I said, you told her she had a dick in her mouth. And Uba said, I didn't say that Brynn said it. And that is what happened. Brynn is the one who said it. So Uba got out of the pool. Yeah.

Kelli (04:41.613)
That's exactly what happened. Jenna was right. Nenna said, this is all semantics. They're both slinging insults at each other. It's just semantics at this point. And she was right.

We Wine Whenever (04:49.115)
Right.

Yes, it was semantics and it was when she was getting out of the pool because Brynn was yelling at her. Brynn was being sarcastic about what she had said the day before about her sleeping with someone to get the job. And then Sy says, listen, I think that you two were just trying to hurt each other, which is absolutely true.

Uba said it again, I didn't say put a dick in her mouth. Brynn said that was sarcasm because of what you said earlier that I slept with somebody to get this job. Uba said, I kept saying, I didn't say anything about a dick. And then Brynn gets up and she's saying to Uba, when did I like do anything aside like work my ass off? And then Uba said, of course, you're being a narcissistic bitch. And it just, from there it just.

blew up. They're all yelling, Brynn's yelling. It's delusional to say that I fucked men for a job. It's delusional to say that you're Naomi Campbell. She just starts like blurting everything out. like I said, now looking back at it, she was drunk. She was really drunk. And it's funny because the reason I think I didn't see it the first time is because

Kelli (06:03.477)
Yeah, for sure.

We Wine Whenever (06:11.582)
When we're used to seeing these housewives drunk, we're used to seeing them sloppy drunk. and like, in my mind, it wasn't them being sloppy. It was just them screaming and yelling at each other, which they would have done if they weren't drinking. You know what I'm saying? Like it didn't come across to me as drunk.

Kelli (06:17.249)
Yes. Yes.

Kelli (06:29.803)
Right. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (06:36.234)
Brin said she thinks that I fuck dudes for money. And then all the ladies like, no, nobody said that. Raquel is very emotional. She gets up and she hugs Brin. And then she starts with Brin says, why can't a black woman make money? Why can't a black woman be successful?

then Uber comes in and pulls Aaron out.

Kelli (06:56.609)
Which is a silly thing for her to say considering that Uba is the one she's accusing of saying these things and Uba is a successful black woman. So you're right, I think alcohol really played a huge part. Well, we'll see, you know.

We Wine Whenever (07:10.215)
Yeah, yeah. And then, Uber pulls Erin out and Brynn says, Brynn's still in the other room and she's telling the other women, I've, I fucked 10 people in my whole life. Uber says like yesterday, I sat in the corner minding my own business and Brynn was coming at me and she was, and, and they've all acknowledged that, that Brynn knows that Uber gets hot.

and she just keeps poking and poking and poking until she gets...

Kelli (07:41.643)
Yeah, and I think Erin and Cy were giving Uba good advice, like telling her, like, just walk away. When she beats you, just walk away. Which is, like you're saying, what she was doing the day before. She was just trying to stay out of mix and just stay by herself. And Brima's still calling her out for it.

We Wine Whenever (07:48.755)
Right.

We Wine Whenever (07:57.019)
Right, right.

We Wine Whenever (08:02.043)
Exactly. Exactly.

Kelli (08:04.023)
Then in the other room, Brynn's saying how she's so worried about her kids one day seeing the show and what Uba said about her. Aren't you worried about your kids seeing you basically tell Erin you want to one, fuck her husband, and two, maybe, may he rest in peace, maybe get with her dad. Like what about your behavior on the show? You're not worried about your kids seeing that?

We Wine Whenever (08:10.343)
Right.

We Wine Whenever (08:27.517)
Right, right. But again...

Kelli (08:32.237)
She's drunk. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (08:32.531)
She was she's drunk because then the next the next thing is while that's going on in the other room Raquel comes in and says that there's food here I know everyone's been drinking a lot and that's really kind of when it hit me and then Erin and sigh they start cracking up and then she's like

Kelli (08:50.539)
And Uba says, get the hell out of here or something.

We Wine Whenever (08:53.169)
Yeah, it was, And then, and then Aaron says to Cy or Cy says to Aaron, have another drink. And then they, they feed, they like pour wine in each other's mouth. Like they, they were drinking more. And I was like, Ooh, they really are. Aaron drinks and she drinks more. They're like, this is, we are so dysfunctional. Uwe says, I don't really care. I'll go do it for the sake of everyone else. Like I'm going to go and I'm going to go apologize. And like you said in the other room,

Brynn is telling the ladies, you know, I'm gonna, and then when she says about my kids, that's when she's like, I'm going through stuff. I'm gonna support group for sexual assault victims. And Uber knows this. Before BravoCon, I called Uber and she knows I was effing raped and I'm still dealing with shit. And then she's telling people I suck dick for work. And I'm just like, and all the ladies were like, what is going on?

Kelli (09:48.493)
Disgusted.

We Wine Whenever (09:52.006)
what is going on.

Kelli (09:52.119)
They were disgusted. mean, Rock Health Base was like...

We Wine Whenever (09:56.55)
Yeah.

Kelli (09:58.294)
utter shock.

We Wine Whenever (09:59.325)
Yep. And then Brynn in her confessional, she says, is the reason that the Jeff Lewis thing upset me. I'm still dealing with stuff. It's like, it's not okay for all I fucking been through. The ladies say it's not okay. Raquel's crying in her confessional. My heart is broken for her. It's too common of a story, unfortunately. And then Jenna says, this kind of violation is horrible. And it is.

When they're all talking about it, like, I'm not sure are they talking about what Brynn said that Uba knew about it or that she was sexually assaulted, right? Like, it's hard to tell. It's hard to follow at this point.

Kelli (10:36.727)
Right, right. Well, I think that they obviously were all very sad for Brynn that she had gone through that. And at the same time, in utter shock that Uba would make any kind of accusations knowing what Brynn had been through. I think it was a combination of both.

We Wine Whenever (10:45.552)
Right.

We Wine Whenever (10:50.861)
uber would say that

We Wine Whenever (10:58.138)
Right.

We Wine Whenever (11:01.648)
Yeah. So then Erin and Sai come out from talking to Uba and everyone's upset and they're crying and they're all like, well, what's going on? And they're like, well, it's not our business to share. Like this isn't our information to share. So then Uba pulls Brynn outside to try and talk to Brynn and they're outside and they're sitting down by themselves. And it was his first and foremost, I want to apologize. So she was trying, like she's like, I want to apologize. I didn't, you know, I didn't mean.

Kelli (11:27.295)
Absolutely. Absolutely.

We Wine Whenever (11:30.599)
I didn't mean that. And says, what? What didn't you mean? She's like, what I said about you sleeping with someone to get this job. Brynn's like, you said I suck dicks. Uwe said, I didn't say that.

Kelli (11:40.493)
Yeah, she kept insisting that Uba said that. I didn't pick up that she was super drunk, but you know what? That right there is an indicator that she was super drunk. She thought she heard something she didn't hear. She said it. Brynn's the one who said it.

We Wine Whenever (11:53.871)
Right, she's the one who said it and Uba's like, I said I'm here to apologize. Brynn says then apologize properly. And then she gets up and walks away. And then Brynn says, saying I'm sorry for saying I sucked, that's what you need to say. Say I'm sorry for saying I sucked dick. And Uba's like, I can't say that because I didn't say that. And she walks away and she's like, go fuck yourself. And I don't blame her. I don't blame her.

Kelli (12:16.055)
Right. Yeah. I don't blame her at all. I have it written down. Brynn is the problem right now. She's the problem.

We Wine Whenever (12:23.631)
Yep. And we know that Uba Sober, she knows what she said. So then Erin goes up to Bryn, she's like, I love you so much. I don't want anyone else calling you names. Now she doesn't even know about the other part of the story yet. They all finished eating and then they all agreed that they're going to go to bed. Production starts taking everyone's mics away. They start closing doors. And then we see Jessel goes into Uba's room.

Kelli (12:28.661)
Exactly.

Kelli (12:39.445)
right.

Kelli (12:53.185)
Thank God Jessel went into Uber's room.

We Wine Whenever (12:54.798)
Yeah, and tells her what Brynn told the ladies and you just hear her screaming.

Jessel says in her confessional, you could see it on her face. Like she was completely blindsided. She had no idea. Then Psy like makes her way into the room and she says she's like sees her on the floor, like in a ball, crying and shaking.

Kelli (13:08.951)
did not know.

Kelli (13:16.695)
She says, Allah strike me down and kill my firstborn if I knew that. I mean, for somebody who's having fibro surgery and embarking on a worrisome fertility track, she wouldn't say that. If she weren't 100 % positive, she did not know, with Brynn saying she knew.

We Wine Whenever (13:28.826)
Yes.

We Wine Whenever (13:33.146)
Mm-hmm.

she would... no.

Yep. Yep. And then she goes, and we didn't see this, but Raquel said it in her confessional, she goes into Raquel and Jenna's room and she gets like right in Jenna's face. And yeah, she's like, like, if you believe that I would do this, that's like, if you believe this. And at that point, they didn't even have any time to process anything. Like it all hit them so fast.

Kelli (13:49.717)
Yeah, they probably couldn't get the cameras up fast enough for that, right?

Kelli (14:07.531)
Yeah, they thought they were going to bed.

We Wine Whenever (14:09.829)
Right, Then Brynn comes out and said, like, what's going on? And then Brynn starts yelling at, starts Brynn starts telling Erin the story about what she went through. Because at that point, Erin didn't even know what was going on. Like, because she wasn't in the room originally.

Kelli (14:27.499)
Right, right.

We Wine Whenever (14:32.45)
and she tells what happened in a last elitre confessional she last year before bravo con one of her family members had an attempted suicide and she called up uber to confide in her and she was spiraling that you know the she happens to me all the time i was hysterical i don't know if she remembered but in my mind she knew

Kelli (14:54.231)
She said, I said it, but now that I think about it, maybe she didn't clock it.

We Wine Whenever (14:59.479)
Right. That right.

We Wine Whenever (15:04.334)
And Jessel's like, I've never seen Uba this way. And then Uba in her confessional says, there's only three people who know the truth, me, her, and God. And then the producers tell Uba to go, they're taking her to a hotel, Jessel goes with her. And Jessel says, she's in a difficult position right now because, listen, she understands the trauma that Brynn just dropped on them.

but watching what Uba is going through, like Uba's in the middle of a trauma right this minute, right this minute. So, you know, what she did for being there and she's, know, Uba has been good to her this whole season.

Kelli (15:39.371)
Right. Right.

Kelli (15:48.939)
Yeah, she has.

We Wine Whenever (15:51.621)
So then in the other room, all the ladies are there and they're talking and they start, and starts telling the story again. And Cy asks Brynn, do you know for a fact that Uba knew? And then Brynn says, well, come to think of it, maybe she didn't clock it. What? And then all of a sudden the ladies like start to question her honesty. And Erin says, I will bet on my life that Uba did not know. Like there's no way she would have said that if she knew.

So they all agree that they're going to go to bed. And then the women are still in there like whispering, talking. And then Brynn makes her way back in the right. And she's trying to like gauge the room to see what's going on.

Kelli (16:33.503)
and goes back in.

Mm-hmm. Check the temperature.

We Wine Whenever (16:41.281)
Right. But again, she's drunk and not really thinking clear because then we see the next morning before the cameras go up, the producer sit down with Bryn to make sure she's okay.

Kelli (16:43.788)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (16:53.761)
because she texts somebody in the middle of the night and said, want to leave. Who'd she call? The producer? Okay.

We Wine Whenever (16:56.719)
She texted one of the producers, yep, she texted one of the producers and she said, I wanna leave and the producer said, okay, I'll make it happen, know, I'll get you out of here, we'll make it happen. So then Sai walks in and you know, she's like, I didn't sleep well last night and Brynn says to her, yeah, I said I wanted to leave and you know, I wasn't feeling well. Well, Sai's like, are you feeling any better now? And she's like, well,

Kelli (17:03.629)
There's a flight leaving at 12 or whatever she said.

We Wine Whenever (17:26.744)
Not really, but you know, we've got a lot to do today. Like we're going horseback riding and we're doing this and maybe I can just like, you know, like suck it up and we'll deal with this later.

Kelli (17:36.909)
Yeah, she's like, I can do a 180. I'm psychotic. That's what she said.

We Wine Whenever (17:40.034)
Yeah, I'm a fucking psycho like that. What? I mean that... that's...

Kelli (17:47.949)
crazy.

We Wine Whenever (17:48.804)
Crazy, crazy. And I don't even know, like, does she know what happened? Like, did she black out?

Kelli (17:56.109)
I don't think she has a clear understanding of what went down. I don't know if the producers were there to debrief her, to tell her, this is what happened, this is what you said, and this is how Uwe responded. It would be nice to know if they did fill her in on that.

We Wine Whenever (18:18.861)
Something tells me that they did not because, you we see the scenes for next week's reunion at the end and it doesn't look good.

Kelli (18:33.535)
No, I mean, the fact that she got up and tried to act like nothing was wrong and that they could just go on with their day after, I mean, that got explosive a couple of times, not just once.

We Wine Whenever (18:47.179)
Right. Right. Right. It was, it was crazy. It was crazy.

Kelli (18:53.889)
So then they must have gotten Brynn out of there before Uba came back, right?

We Wine Whenever (18:57.845)
Yes, yes, they did, they did. So then Bryn leaves and the ladies are outside, they're talking and they're waiting for Uba and Jessel to get back and all the ladies agree that there's no way that Uba knew. And then Erin says,

Kelli (19:11.949)
I said to her, you gotta go. Sy said to Brynn, you gotta go.

We Wine Whenever (19:15.586)
Yeah. Yeah, she did. And she did have to go. She was right. And Erin says to Jenna, well, now you know I didn't call you poor. And Raquel says, or she wasn't in on the prank. Like she wasn't in on the prank.

Kelli (19:20.493)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (19:24.717)
Yeah, yeah.

Right. Right.

We Wine Whenever (19:33.099)
And then Erin in her confessional, she says, Brynn has a long history of taking a comment when we're not filming and then flipping them and twisting them and using it for herself. And she does, but listen, also think, because one, we already discussed, we think she was very drunk. I also think that this is the chaos that she is used to from her childhood trauma.

Kelli (19:43.308)
Yeah.

Kelli (20:00.831)
Sure, sure.

We Wine Whenever (20:01.475)
from the way she grew up and what she had to deal with. She's just used to being like this, doing a 180, just flipping the switch on and off. You know? Which is horrible. It's a horrible way to live.

Kelli (20:11.243)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kelli (20:16.437)
I mean, and listen, everything else that has gone on this season was trivial. This is so serious. And she, of all people having been victim to it, should understand that. I don't think she really, like, I think that she thought she was just gonna say it. Well, again, she was probably very drunk.

We Wine Whenever (20:32.577)
Right.

Kelli (20:41.025)
I think she thought she was gonna say it. Everybody was gonna believe her. Everybody was gonna feel bad for her and get mad at Uba, but somehow they were gonna be able to move on. But you can't accuse somebody of that and think that they're going to move on. This is her credibility. This is her character. Like, I don't know if Raquel said it on the show or on Watch What Happens Live, but she said,

We Wine Whenever (20:57.153)
Right.

Kelli (21:04.179)
She flew back with Uba. I guess she sat next to her and she, Uba was hysterical because she was like, what is Oliver going to think of me now? Which is, I mean, that's horrible. She wasn't even worried about the American public. I mean, which I'm sure in a way she was, but she was more worried about her partner who she's trying to build a future with. That's so sad.

We Wine Whenever (21:12.212)
Yeah. It's a horrible thing. Horrible thing. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (21:19.137)
Right.

We Wine Whenever (21:26.26)
It is sad. It really is.

Kelli (21:29.621)
It's very irresponsible on Brynn's part, you know, and I know we all say and do things when we're drunk, but this was bad. This was bad. And I felt the whole episode, I still blame Brynn.

We Wine Whenever (21:46.271)
it's totally Bryn's fault.

Kelli (21:47.167)
I still blame Brynn, but even before this whole thing happened and now it's like, my God, she's just a mess. She's a mess.

We Wine Whenever (21:56.556)
You know, the interesting thing is this whole season, Uba came off really hot. She was explosive all season. And honestly, like she's getting a lot of heat for that all season. Like people were really hating on Uba. She's entitled, how dare she? Like, but again, like she was dealing with what

Kelli (22:03.021)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (22:12.674)
Mm-hmm.

We Wine Whenever (22:24.258)
Brynn was doing this all season. That's what she kept saying. You girls are pigeons. You keep twisting the stories. that's what was activating her, was Brynn's behavior and Brynn's lies and manipulation. I mean, I...

Kelli (22:26.367)
Exactly. She was baiting her.

Kelli (22:40.139)
Yeah.

Kelli (22:46.721)
Yep, 100%. And she, and Uba said, now, you know, at least everybody sees. Right? Didn't she say something like that?

We Wine Whenever (22:55.425)
She did, but I didn't get the feeling online that people are giving Uba the grace that she really should be getting. still, no, I still see people giving Uba a hard time despite what happened at the end with Brynn. No, it's not right. It's not.

Kelli (23:05.378)
you don't? You don't think?

Kelli (23:15.063)
That's not right.

Because again, this whole essay aside, Brynn tries to portray herself a certain way and has from the beginning of her being on the show, she thinks she's Samantha from Sex and the City. And you portray yourself that way, you can't get mad at people for saying certain things. I'm sorry. And I might get heat for saying that, but.

We Wine Whenever (23:43.327)
No, I agree. I totally agree.

Kelli (23:46.697)
You know, if you walk, if you talk the talk, you have to walk the walk. And you can't expect other people to not respond to your behavior.

We Wine Whenever (23:57.247)
Right. Yeah. I mean, the ladies feel like they've been taken advantage of. Erin says we need to just get through this. And then Erin gets a text from Brynn and wants to know if they're all leaving.

Kelli (24:13.205)
Yeah, she probably figured maybe they were going to stay and keep filming. Well, which they kind of did. Not a lot, but they did.

We Wine Whenever (24:18.118)
Not really, but yeah. you know, Aaron's hugging Jenna, Aaron's hugging, they're all hugging each other. Like, Uba comes, Jessel comes, Raquel kept apologizing to Jessel. I don't know why she was apologizing to Jessel so much. Did you notice that?

Kelli (24:40.361)
Me neither. I did notice that and I don't know why it was so over the top. she must be questioning why she agreed. yeah, wrote, I wrote Raquel, poor Raquel keeps apologizing to Jessel. She must be questioning herself why she agreed to do the show. That's what I wrote down. Yeah, I didn't understand the overly, over apologizing.

We Wine Whenever (25:01.417)
Ha ha!

We Wine Whenever (25:08.085)
Unless maybe she, and I don't know, maybe she was upset that Jessel told Uba. I don't know, like maybe something, maybe.

Kelli (25:18.935)
maybe, actually, she was like, my god, why are you going in there? We all just want to go to sleep. Maybe that's what it was.

We Wine Whenever (25:23.6)
Right, maybe that's, I don't know though, I really don't know. But either way, Jessel's like, it's okay. They asked Uba if she wants, she's like, I don't wanna go back to last night.

Kelli (25:27.661)
Yeah.

Kelli (25:38.252)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (25:40.016)
The thing that really hurt her the most is that people believed Brynn and that they thought that Uber was capable of that. And it is upsetting. It is upsetting. And I think that people, think all of them felt horrible about that. But again, there was no time to process anything. It all happened so fast.

Kelli (25:48.621)
That's upsetting.

Kelli (26:01.557)
Yeah. I mean, I think every single one of them said that. Raquel definitely said it on Watch What Happens Live.

We Wine Whenever (26:05.386)
Yeah.

And then, Uber, she's like, the most important thing is Brynn. Okay. Uber says that when she gets back, Uber asks if Brynn is okay. Cause that's the most important thing. No, no, this is when, this is, this is when she got back. She's still worried about Brynn.

Kelli (26:24.149)
Was this five days later when they were shooting the intro pictures? this was when she got back to the house, the villa.

Wow.

Right.

We Wine Whenever (26:36.007)
which like blows my mind. I mean, she's a good person. Then five days later, we're at the opening credit shoot. And like you said, that's when Raquel talks about flying back. And then we get the, we start to get their, you know, their closing lines. Raquel and Mel still haven't made it down to Puerto Rico, but they've been to the Hamptons where they're buying a home close to Erin and Gabe, Gabe.

Kelli (26:38.018)
Yeah.

Kelli (27:03.085)
So funny.

We Wine Whenever (27:05.884)
And then Erin's talking while they're doing the makeup. She's like, Erin doesn't think Brynn is a bad person. She comes from a place of pain. And then her closing line is, Erin is done with pranks, but not surprises. She surprised Abe with a baby bump, and the baby's gender is a secret they're keeping together. I didn't even know that was a secret, so that's good. Then Size doesn't see Brynn as the same person. She was fun, and I'll never trust her again.

Kelli (27:24.173)
I didn't either

We Wine Whenever (27:35.751)
And then Sai's closing line is, Sai is still on her Zen journey and has even taken up meditation. She's better off taking deep breaths, but still struggles with taking bullshit. Which is...

Kelli (27:49.389)
So funny, I was listening to two T's today, which I have a comment about that too. And Tam was like, huh, sounds like me. I'm like, no, it doesn't. No, it doesn't.

We Wine Whenever (27:56.223)
God. See, this is why I can't listen to her. I just can't. Then Jessel said she texted Brynn. She hopes she's OK. Doesn't think she understands the gravity of all this. And Jessel's closing line is Jessel and Povit recently celebrated their 10th wedding anniversary. Povit got her a gift, but it wasn't a baby girl. I know.

Kelli (28:01.289)
I know, I know. For real.

We Wine Whenever (28:26.174)
Then Jenna's talking about how she has tenderness towards Brynn and Uba. She can't say that she did it maliciously. She doesn't know. Then her closing line is Jenna made room in her house for Cass and her kids. Her heart is full just like her bush. Why?

Kelli (28:50.592)
Well, it's the most interesting thing that happened to Jenna this season, so we'll take it. I don't want to see them reenacting it. I'll watch a drawing.

We Wine Whenever (28:53.287)
I know.

Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (29:00.702)
No, we don't need, we... All right, let's move on. Let's go on to, yeah, better things. So then, Uba shows up and she's talking and she said that she hopes that she's okay for today because she's been praying to Jesus and Allah. She said she has love in her heart. She only asked the producers that she doesn't speak to Brynn. Then Brynn, yep, Brynn shows up and the producers tell her she has 30 minutes.

Kelli (29:07.327)
You

Kelli (29:26.135)
That sense.

We Wine Whenever (29:30.871)
and she's, you know, her stuff and her makeup and glamour down there. And Brynn says that, you know, it's a weird vibe in here. also says, I can't hate Brynn, it will hurt me. I can't let her cut my wings. I have to let it go so I can live my life, which I completely agree with that. And then Uba's closing line is Uba's moving forward with her fibroid surgery. Her recovery plan involves a lot of foot rubs from Oliver.

Kelli (29:49.835)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kelli (30:01.791)
It hit me when I saw her closing line that she and Bose were doing the same thing, right?

We Wine Whenever (30:06.876)
I know. Yes, yes. I was thinking that too, because Bozma was on Watch What Happens Live with Jenna. Then Brynn says, Uba doesn't seem bothered or upset. Nobody does. They take the group pictures and those two are on opposite ends. And then Brynn's closing line is, spent some time in France learning how to cook, but she swears she's done stirring the pot.

Kelli (30:10.955)
Yeah, with Jana, yeah.

We Wine Whenever (30:39.953)
Then after they take all the, I know, then after they're done taking the pictures, Erin goes and says hi to Brynn and she wants her to be okay. And she says she thinks that there is a path forward from all of this. on Watch What Happens Live, when Andy asked Jenna if anyone has spoken to Brynn since the reunion, Jessel and Raquel were there and they all said no.

Kelli (30:40.353)
You really, really might be done doing anything on the show.

Kelli (31:10.839)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (31:11.805)
And they basically, everyone is saying that she just couldn't own her shit. She couldn't apologize and own it.

Kelli (31:19.223)
I mean, as of, from what we've seen so far, she's not acknowledging it. I mean, for her to say that the girls don't give a fuck about me. She said that at that shoot. It's like, what are you talking about? Like, you haven't acknowledged what you did. Did you apologize? Did you say you, you know, I don't know.

We Wine Whenever (31:31.495)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

and even

We Wine Whenever (31:42.606)
Even still, even still like that shoot was only five days after, right? Then she goes to the reunion, then this airs and then she puts out that Rolling Stone article. I mean, come on. And then Erin responded. Yeah. It's, it's just.

Kelli (31:54.921)
yeah.

yeah, she's doubling down.

We Wine Whenever (32:06.645)
She doesn't get it. She doesn't get it. And I honestly don't think that they can move forward with her.

Kelli (32:12.913)
I don't think so. It's like Phaedra, what she did to Candy when she told Portia that Candy and Todd tried to drug her and take advantage of her. I mean, Phaedra got fired for that. She's back on Bravo, but she got fired for that. Is she back on Atlanta? Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (32:22.982)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (32:30.821)
Yeah, she's on the new season.

Kelli (32:34.005)
I mean, she couldn't be on there with Candy. So Candy had to leave for her to get a spot back. But that's a little effed up that Bravo fired her for that kind of behavior and then hired her back. Whatever, we're not talking about Atlanta. But it's very similar. I was listening to two teas today and so they did one show, a recap of New York and Beverly Hills. They flew through New York, they barely talked about it.

We Wine Whenever (32:36.057)
No, well, that's why, because... Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (32:46.266)
No, we're not.

Kelli (33:01.075)
All to get to Beverly Hills and basically for them to, know, especially Teddy, defend Kyle. This is why I can't listen to them. I cannot listen to them talk about Beverly Hills. That's all Teddy does is defend Kyle. And it's, I get it, but then don't cover the show. It should be Tamra with Emily or Tamra with somebody else. Just like, you know, Tamra couldn't talk about OC.

We Wine Whenever (33:16.87)
Well, it's her BFF. She shouldn't talk about it. No, she shouldn't talk about it.

Absolutely.

Kelli (33:29.097)
It's too close and it's nauseating. I mean, they flew through New York. Like that was major what happened on New York, major.

We Wine Whenever (33:38.394)
Yeah, it was major what happened on New York. You know what I think? And why did they have to do two in one episode?

Kelli (33:43.145)
I don't know, think because they, I don't know. I don't know, it's good question.

We Wine Whenever (33:47.676)
I think, and I could be wrong, but I think Teddy has a lot of weight because it was her podcast first. I know two tees in a pot is both of them, but I think she carries more weight.

Kelli (33:55.467)
Yes it was.

Kelli (34:02.377)
I think, because it wasn't supposed to be Tamra. I think it was supposed to be Tinsley, quite honestly. It was supposed to be somebody else with a T, but it wasn't Tamra. I think it was an East Coaster. And then for some reason that didn't work out. And then they got Tamra, I guess.

We Wine Whenever (34:13.692)
It's interesting.

We Wine Whenever (34:21.275)
That's interesting. was listening to David Yontov today. I haven't listened to him in a while. And he was talking about a lot of different things. But one of the things he was talking about was how him and Sarah Frazier, give, you can hire them on the weekends to help you with your podcast. And I was laughing because he was saying, if,

Kelli (34:25.536)
Me neither.

Kelli (34:40.354)
Yes.

We Wine Whenever (34:44.911)
I'll give you this advice for free. Don't even have to pay me. If you're going to do a podcast, do it by yourself and hire co-hosts. Don't ever put your name, don't ever put it together. And I was like, good thing, good thing we didn't call them.

Kelli (34:55.223)
Whoops.

We Wine Whenever (34:59.451)
And then he starts like naming all the failed ones. And he's like, look at Teresa, she had it with this one, then that one stopped, then she did another one, then that one's not. And he starts naming all these like failed podcasts. And I was like, God.

Kelli (35:12.289)
You know, it's a shame I never listened to Namaste because I don't like Teresa. It's very obvious. So I would never listen to her anyway. But from what I understand, she and that girl, Melissa, right? It was Melissa Feaster. They had a very good dynamic before Louie.

We Wine Whenever (35:16.205)
Yeah. Right.

We Wine Whenever (35:25.327)
Yeah. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (35:31.632)
Yeah.

Kelli (35:32.951)
So that's a shame. I think then her second one was what, with Louie? Nobody's gonna listen to that, Theresa.

We Wine Whenever (35:39.237)
Well, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what's going on with that whole situation.

Kelli (35:44.341)
you're probably better off doing it with one of your daughters.

We Wine Whenever (35:47.513)
Yeah, she should do it with one of her daughters. I mean, yeah, I mean, her tree stumps will listen no matter what she says.

Kelli (35:54.291)
Sure, sure, but if you want to branch out of that, because I, yeah, if you want to branch out of just that circle, don't put Louie on. I mean, I think it's pretty much, I think at this point she's doing Kim D's podcast and Kim D's doing her podcast and that's it. and Jackie, Jackie will go on.

We Wine Whenever (36:10.199)
I know, I know.

We Wine Whenever (36:15.353)
Yeah, and Jackie and Jen Fessler are doing their podcasts together again.

Kelli (36:19.147)
Yeah, yeah.

We Wine Whenever (36:22.037)
and that's the other big thing. Everyone is talking about the Justin Baldoni and,

Kelli (36:29.783)
Blake Lively.

We Wine Whenever (36:30.447)
Thank you. I don't know why I keep forgetting her name. Everyone is talking about it. Every.

Kelli (36:33.324)
I don't know.

I honestly haven't been following it that much, but people are talking about it.

We Wine Whenever (36:38.875)
Everyone is talking about it and the more I listen to it about it, the more I change my mind.

Kelli (36:48.929)
Really? So which way are you leaning?

We Wine Whenever (36:55.234)
I don't know. I really don't know. I really don't. You know, I hear really good arguments for Blake's side and then I hear really good arguments for Justin's side.

Kelli (37:06.369)
Did you listen to the, did the Bravo docket drop on yet about it? All right, that's the first thing I'm gonna listen to because I love them. Okay.

We Wine Whenever (37:10.21)
I think, yes, they did one part. They did one part. They only did one part. The next part is coming out next week. But then there's another one that I found. It's called First Something. I'll send you a link to it. They also do like legal stuff. And they were giving another side to it. Yeah, I'll send you that one. I've heard Heather McDonald's

Kelli (37:34.935)
Okay.

We Wine Whenever (37:37.594)
But the person she had on Talking About It has their own podcast, I don't remember who that was, and they were slamming her because that person was anti-Blake Lively. But there's a lot of people that are anti-Blake Lively just because of who she is.

Kelli (37:56.245)
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

We Wine Whenever (38:01.06)
But when you, I don't know, you're gonna have to listen to him and let me know what you think. I really don't know. I'm really still on the fence about it. I haven't really formed an opinion yet. Like I keep changing my mind.

Kelli (38:03.746)
Yeah.

Kelli (38:08.843)
Yeah, I'll listen and then maybe we'll do a show about it.

We Wine Whenever (38:12.524)
Yeah, we definitely should do because I think it is interesting and I did watch the movie. I think it's a good movie.

Kelli (38:19.681)
Maybe I'll watch it. I have a hard time with that stuff.

We Wine Whenever (38:22.782)
no, Bethany talked about it too. Bethany talked about it too. Yeah. Did you see Bethany talking about the TikTopolis? When TikTok went out, she coined the phrase TikTopolis. Like that's just so funny. The TikTop, she's so good. Like that's so smart. She was on like Fox News like the next day, like telling what happened because as...

Kelli (38:24.893)
I think I saw a clip on TikTok of that.

Kelli (38:33.406)
No.

Kelli (38:40.205)
She is very funny, Bethany.

We Wine Whenever (38:48.941)
TikTok was shutting down. She was doing a live with Spencer Pratt and what's her name?

Another very famous TikToker from New Jersey. Again, my brain isn't working.

Kelli (39:07.061)
Not that Chrissy Balls. Okay.

We Wine Whenever (39:08.647)
no, not Chrissy Balls. I can't think of her name. Alex Earl, thank you. Alex Earl, Spencer Pratt, and Bethany were doing a live TikTok together, just as TikTok was shutting down. And it was Bethany's TikTok. So all of a sudden, like one of them disappears, then the other one disappears. And then like you see people's like feeds like going away and...

Kelli (39:34.048)
my gosh.

We Wine Whenever (39:34.957)
Bethany's like talking about it on Instagram the next day and then Fox News had her on and she was talking about like, it was like community. I felt, you know how Bethany is, how she like takes like a chicken salad and she turns it into like money, to be quite honest with you. She turns it into money or she'll take a Dior bag and turn it into money or she'll just, and she was doing the same thing with TikTok. And then one of her,

Kelli (39:51.691)
Yeah, right, absolutely.

Kelli (39:58.861)
Mm-hmm.

We Wine Whenever (40:04.248)
podcast, she was talking about the difference between TikTok and Instagram. you have to listen to it. She's just very funny. She's like, TikTok is like my Hamptons house, whereas Instagram is like where I do business. But then TikTok is like where I'm comfy. I'm like, what are you talking about? So I guess that's it for New York.

Kelli (40:12.557)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Kelli (40:25.997)
I hope you listen to it. That's body.

Alright. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (40:34.244)
until next time, thank you for watching and listening. Please follow us. Tell your friends. Bye.

Kelli (40:41.463)
Bye.