When Etiquette Fails

 When Etiquette Fails

This episode of Real Housewives of Orange County (S18, E16) is packed with confrontations, accusations, and emotional moments. Heather attempts to broker peace between Jenn and Tamra, but Jenn confronts Tamra, accusing her of being soulless. Meanwhile, Tamra raises old scandals, sharing gossip about Jenn's boyfriend, Ryan, which puts Jenn on edge. The episode shifts focus to Shannon, who celebrates her birthday with her daughters, while Tamra, Gina, and Heather discuss recent conflicts over loyalty and honesty.

During an etiquette lesson, the ladies struggle to maintain decorum, bringing levity before serious accusations resurface. Shannon grows frustrated with Tamra’s continuous gossip, particularly over an accusation involving Gina's boyfriend, Travis. Gina is stunned by Tamra's revelation that Shannon allegedly investigated whether Gina had pushed Travis down the stairs, which reignites tension among the women.

In the final scenes, Shannon and Heather discuss their strained friendship, while Tamra continues to spread rumors, intensifying the rifts in the group.

Takeaways

• Heather confronts Jen about her comments on Tamara.
• Tamara's jealousy towards Jen is evident throughout the episode.
• The hosts criticize Tamara for her manipulative behavior.
• Gina advocates for Shannon, showing the importance of support.
• The etiquette lesson provides comedic relief amidst the drama.
• Emily's humorous outburst during the etiquette class highlights the show's tone.
• The hosts express frustration over the repetitive nature of the show's conflicts.
• Tamara's past actions are called into question regarding investigations.
• The conversation touches on the ethics of personal investigations in reality TV.
• The hosts agree that the drama often feels juvenile and unnecessary. Listening to legal experts can simplify complex issues.
• Friendships can be tested by accusations and misunderstandings.
• Past behaviors can haunt present relationships.
• Health issues can reveal vulnerability in reality TV.
• Gossip can have serious consequences for individuals.
• Personal stories should be handled with care and respect.
• Trust is crucial in friendships, especially in public settings.
• Production decisions can influence how stories are told.
• The impact of rumors can affect real lives and relationships.
• Expectations for reunions can heighten drama and tension.

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• 12:39 (Cont.) When Etiquette Fails

Transcript

We Wine Whenever (00:01.27)
Hi, welcome to We Wine Whenever. I'm Wendy. We are talking about Real Housewives of Orange County, season 18, episode number 16. This one was called Sunday Roasted.

Kelli (00:03.809)
I'm Kelly.

We Wine Whenever (00:16.652)
Yeah, we start off. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, she is. We start off with Heather getting Jen to come back and talk after she ran out when Tamara was getting her hair done and she went in and confronted her about her hiring a private investigator for Ryan. So Jen says to Tamara, you don't even have a soul. And Heather's like, well, that's not nice. And the

Kelli (00:17.994)
I I guess Shannon's the one getting roasted.

Kelli (00:44.189)
I wanted Heather to just shut up. Like just let them do what they're gonna do because just let somebody show Tamra up finally.

We Wine Whenever (00:53.995)
Yeah, I agree. The interesting thing about that comment was when she was telling, when Jen was telling Ryan what happened, he said the exact same thing. He said, she doesn't have a soul. She's like, I said that same thing. Yeah. So then Tamar says, you know, we weren't in a good place last year. You know that. And I admitted it to you, you know, we'd moved on and

Kelli (01:05.74)
Yep. Yep. Yep. And they're right.

We Wine Whenever (01:21.623)
Tamar still keeps maintaining that she did not do a background check.

Kelli (01:26.316)
but she continues to say things about Ryan. Like she brought something else up that she hadn't even brought up yet. It's like, what are you doing? You're still implicating yourself for crying out loud.

We Wine Whenever (01:30.539)
Yes.

We Wine Whenever (01:36.128)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (01:39.989)
Yeah, I don't know why she keeps doing that. I really don't.

Kelli (01:44.396)
She's not smart.

We Wine Whenever (01:46.156)
So Tamar says to Heather after Jen leaves, two years ago I was in the gym working out and this guy came up to me and he said, I can't believe Ryan chose his face around here. He was selling time shares for another country. It was a scam. They were collecting HOA money and they weren't even building them. People went to jail for it, she said.

Kelli (01:56.226)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (02:06.092)
Good.

Kelli (02:09.45)
Yeah, that's what I mean. She's still spinning tail. If that happened two years ago, it's over. And he hasn't been named in a lawsuit yet. He's not guilty and nothing's happening to him. So you need to keep your mouth shut.

We Wine Whenever (02:21.279)
Right. Right.

We Wine Whenever (02:26.3)
I agree. I totally agree.

And then she goes on to say, is, I, you know, this was the other thing she said. Shannon contacted her about this because Leslie Bedore was named in the lawsuit and she wanted to know about it. Yes.

Kelli (02:42.316)
her ex-husband, Leslie Bedore's ex-husband was named. So David's wife's ex-husband was named in the lawsuit. And that's why Shannon wanted, I mean, listen, can blame Shannon for not wanting that information.

We Wine Whenever (02:47.584)
wait, let...

We Wine Whenever (02:52.939)
okay, okay. Okay.

We Wine Whenever (03:00.284)
Yeah, no, that makes sense. That makes sense. It wasn't about Jen. She wanted to know what was going on on the other side. So Tamar said if she had showed the whole text thread, you would have seen that. Heather says, she says to Jen says to Tamar, Heather. No, let me get this right. Heather says to Tamar, Jen looks really good. I have stomach, stomach envy. And then Tamar says, well, she had a tummy. She said a tummy tuck will do that.

Kelli (03:06.999)
Right.

Kelli (03:22.314)
I have. Yep.

We Wine Whenever (03:30.756)
And Heather said, stop naming people surgeries.

Kelli (03:34.166)
Right. She's so jealous. She really is jealous of Jen because I think Amber probably was attracted to Ryan at one point and he probably paid her no attention out of respect for Eddie and she was his wife. But let's face it, Jen looks, you know, amazing and she's a gorgeous woman and you know, she got what they think is a hot guy. He's not my type. But good looking and

We Wine Whenever (03:38.9)
She is. She is.

We Wine Whenever (03:52.381)
Yeah, she does. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (04:00.209)
No, not my type either.

Kelli (04:03.83)
their types.

We Wine Whenever (04:04.198)
Enough. Right, right. And he's good to her. And he's good to her children.

Kelli (04:08.158)
Exactly. Like they're making it work and they were against the odds. But you know, it's interesting because, you know, Tamra left her husband and, you know, I don't know if she left him for Eddie. I think no matter what, Tamra was going to leave Simon. So Eddie was a non-factor. But you would think that she'd be so much more supportive. Like, I really think that that shows that she is jealous.

We Wine Whenever (04:33.917)
Yeah.

Kelli (04:34.294)
Because if she weren't jealous of what Jen had, why wouldn't you just support her and be like, I'm really happy that this worked out for you.

We Wine Whenever (04:40.848)
No, I agree with you. She just wants to stir the pot.

Kelli (04:43.766)
Yeah, and that too. She thinks this is being a good housewife.

We Wine Whenever (04:48.818)
Then we see Shannon, meets up with Stella and Adeline. We find out that they took the train together from Paris so that they could spend Shannon's birthday with her, which I thought was so nice.

Kelli (04:58.146)
That was nice. I liked when it was like, guess who, guess who's legal in this country? Me. And then ordered a drink.

We Wine Whenever (05:04.231)
Yep. And then they asked Shannon, you know, how it's been going with the ladies. And she's like, well, the last few nights have not been good. And the girls are like, listen, we are three single ladies here in London. Like, let's find some men. And you know, Shannon's like, you know, she wants no part of that.

Kelli (05:20.706)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (05:25.29)
Yeah, no. Yeah, yeah, you guys have had it.

We Wine Whenever (05:29.937)
Then we see Heather, Tamara and Gina go to lunch and Gina says to Tamara, that's not good. I saw the text messages about what, that she hired a private investigator. And she says, Gina says to Tamara, would you do that to me? And Heather says, don't, I don't condone digging either. Why do you think I was so mad at Katie? So now, once again, Heather has to bring it back to her.

But when Jen was trying to slam Tamar about it, she got her nose in there and told her that that wasn't nice. Like it just doesn't make sense the way these guys work with each other. It really doesn't.

Kelli (06:08.598)
Right, right.

Kelli (06:15.104)
No, and it's so funny because Tamra keeps blaming Shannon for causing a rift between she and Jen's friendship. But here we have the lunch where they're telling Gina about the Emily Heather thing, right? And then later we're gonna see where Heather and Tamra are telling Emily about the Gina Travis thing and Shannon. So who's trying to fuck with whose friendships? Tamra.

We Wine Whenever (06:29.785)
Right? Mm-hmm.

We Wine Whenever (06:38.649)
Yes.

I know. I know.

Kelli (06:42.296)
And Heather, quite honestly, Heather's cosigning all of this, so she's just as guilty in my eyes.

We Wine Whenever (06:49.101)
Yeah, I completely agree. this is again, like I was I keep saying about this show. We're seeing two different conversations happening with two different sets of people and it's going back and forth and it's confusing. I wish that they would stop doing this.

Kelli (07:01.271)
Yeah.

Kelli (07:05.58)
I know, but that's what these, I mean Salt Lake and OC obviously because they have the same production company that's really lazy quite honestly, because they're mirroring.

We Wine Whenever (07:14.945)
No, it's New York. It's New York and OC. No, New York and Salt Lake have the same production company.

Kelli (07:21.02)
that's right. OC has Beverly, the same as Beverly Hills. Well, they're all lazy then, because they're all doing the same thing. All they're doing is showing these girls talking about each other. It's like, listen, that shit was middle school. We're 50 years old. We don't want to watch this. I don't want to watch it.

We Wine Whenever (07:24.568)
Beverly Hills, yes, yes.

We Wine Whenever (07:40.226)
Yeah, I agree. I know I don't either. I don't either. I don't either. And then, you know, I was actually surprised after Heather said that about Katie. She just says, I can't believe what a liar Katie is. Because she's still maintaining that Katie was lying about the whole situation. When I really do think that it gets resolved at the reunion and it was just a misunderstanding.

Kelli (08:10.89)
Yes, but I think that Heather wants to establish Katie not being trustworthy because Katie brought the paparazzi thing up. So if she can prove that Katie is lying about one thing, everybody's gonna consider her a liar and not believe her about anything.

We Wine Whenever (08:18.775)
Right.

We Wine Whenever (08:27.233)
Right. And then Tamra feels the need to bring up, listen, I want to tell you something. I went candle making with Katie and her daughter, Kylie, and Kylie had watched Emily's Twins. And what Kylie's daughter told us when we went candle making together is that she was talking to the boys about the housewives and have you ever met any of the housewives and do you like them? And they said that,

Heather's mean to my mom. She's bossy. We don't like Heather. But I mean, just hearing that story and then they play it back for us. Now we saw them doing the candle making. So why didn't we just see that then? We saw them, right. There's no way in heck these eight year old boys are having this conversation with Kylie.

Kelli (08:58.232)
She's bossy.

She is bossy.

Kelli (09:10.794)
Exactly. Why would they hold it?

Kelli (09:21.77)
No, and maybe they said, my mom said Heather's bossy because I could see Emily saying that. I don't think Emily's the type to talk in front of her kids about things, but Heather is bossy and if she said it, she probably said it in jest.

We Wine Whenever (09:37.673)
Yeah, I don't know. mean, I just thought that because you the look on Heather's face was like

Kelli (09:43.896)
She looked like she was gonna cry.

We Wine Whenever (09:45.331)
Yeah, like, Emily's kids, why are they saying this about me? Instead of like...

That wasn't really the point. And they're kids, they're eight year olds. Like, let's just say they did say you're bossy. Who cares? They're eight year olds.

Kelli (09:55.244)
Right. Right.

Kelli (10:01.546)
And by the way Heather, you are bossy.

We Wine Whenever (10:05.023)
Yeah. So then, Gina's... Right. Yeah, yeah.

Kelli (10:06.668)
It's like saying you have brown hair. Basically.

We Wine Whenever (10:13.386)
So t-

Kelli (10:13.474)
But that's Tamra bringing something up, you know.

We Wine Whenever (10:17.034)
to throw Emily and Katie under the bus, both of them. She's trying to throw them both under the bus. And good thing Gina was there because she's like, listen, I know Shane and he, Emily and Shane would never talk about anything like this in front of the children. And, you know, we find out later that they were made aware that this conversation happened and her and Shane discussed it and they decided, listen, Kylie's not watching our kids again.

Kelli (10:20.824)
in the end of the bus. Right. Right.

We Wine Whenever (10:46.604)
and we're just gonna drop it, you know, let's.

Kelli (10:49.1)
because obviously Kylie's the one who brought it

We Wine Whenever (10:52.047)
Yeah, and listen, I do think that Carly does want to be on this show.

Kelli (10:57.304)
it's very clear that Kylie wants to be on the show.

We Wine Whenever (11:01.513)
It's just sad. It's very sad to me.

Kelli (11:01.612)
Very clear.

It's very clear that Katie has now moved from San Diego, leaving one of her kids up there, which whatever, he wanted to finish school. I'm certainly not mom shaming her or judging her parenting, but she moved before it was a convenient time for her family to be on the show.

We Wine Whenever (11:13.883)
Right.

We Wine Whenever (11:24.735)
Right, I know. I, listen, I wanted to like Katie, because I really like her dynamic with Jen. I like Jen and Katie together, but I don't like this stirring the pot.

Kelli (11:31.478)
Me too.

Kelli (11:36.184)
Especially with kids, especially with Emily's kids. If your daughter's 18 and wants to be on the show and you know, it's like, gee, she, you got, you have to learn to take the criticism though. You can't be on the show and be involved and then turn around and be like, why is everybody coming at me? I'm just a kid. You know, you got to play the game. But Emily's kids are eight years old. They are not on the show very often. And they should certainly not be involved in any kind of drama.

We Wine Whenever (11:53.18)
Right.

We Wine Whenever (12:06.629)
Yeah, no, I totally agree. I totally agree with that. And then we see Shannon says goodbye to her girls. All the ladies are going to go to dinner together. And Heather tells Tamara while they're getting dressed that they're going to have etiquette lessons. And Tamara's like, for me or for everybody? And Heather's like, well, for everybody. But I mean.

Kelli (12:32.204)
Did Heather set this etiquette thing up?

We Wine Whenever (12:34.375)
I feel like she did. I really feel like she did. Because this was Shannon's trip. I'm sure Shannon did not set this up.

Kelli (12:36.376)
She's such a joke. She's a joke.

Kelli (12:41.28)
No. No. Why does Shannon have so many problems with her stomach? I feel terrible. I if she has anxiety. Well, I'm sure on this trip, even if she didn't have prior anxiety, she had anxiety on this trip. Because Tamra clearly just went on the trip to ruin it for Shannon.

We Wine Whenever (12:44.07)
So.

We Wine Whenever (12:50.748)
100 %!

We Wine Whenever (13:01.616)
Yeah.

Yeah. So then Emily walks in just as the etiquette teacher's about to start telling them what to do. And Emily starts yelling at Katie, I'm so mad at you. And she's like, you told me that those were going to work in six hours and they started working in two. And Emily says, where's the bathroom?

Kelli (13:20.482)
she starts talking about poop pills. She actually says poop pills at an etiquette class.

We Wine Whenever (13:23.29)
I know. Well, cause Shannon said, are those poop pills? Because I need them. I was laughing at that. The lady that's teaching at etiquette is just looking at them like, I'm sure she's thinking like, what have I gotten myself into? Right.

Kelli (13:27.5)
Yeah.

Kelli (13:31.245)
Yeah.

Kelli (13:38.304)
Yeah, why did I agree to this?

She probably rushed it along.

We Wine Whenever (13:44.613)
So she teaches them that, you know, which hand to hold your fork in and which hand to hold your knife in and never switch. Your fork hand is your fork hand and your knife hand is your knife hand. And you're supposed to be sitting up straight in your chair. Never have your back against the back of the chair. Cause that's not good posture. No, my, yeah. I mean, that is better posture, but you know what? I'm sitting here and being comfortable. No!

Kelli (14:02.838)
No, you set up straight.

Kelli (14:08.874)
It's not very comfortable. Yeah, it's not very comfortable.

We Wine Whenever (14:11.808)
It's not. I'm not sitting up straight. I'm using the back.

Kelli (14:14.008)
In I'm going to sit back and move my microwave. I'm going to move my microphone closer. my God.

We Wine Whenever (14:18.298)
So as she's talking about to sit back in the chair, they cut to a scene where Emily flips over the chair on the beach and fell on the ground.

Kelli (14:27.062)
my God, that was so funny. That was so funny. What they were doing with that, flashing to scenes of them just acting a fool. That was very good. Yep.

We Wine Whenever (14:33.07)
That was funny.

We Wine Whenever (14:38.946)
I love that. And then Heather asked if it's polite to point. And then we cut to the scene where she's, you know, pointing at Emily and she says, well, most cultures it's impolite to point. And then Tamra says, there's too many rules. And the etiquette lady says, well, there's quite a lot of rules. And then Tamra in her confessional, she said, here's a rule for you. And she gives us the finger. I'm like, come on, Tamra, like, can you...

Kelli (14:49.771)
Yeah.

Kelli (15:06.04)
She's just trash. She's just trash.

We Wine Whenever (15:07.086)
Just class it up a little bit. I mean, this isn't a confessional. It's not like, know, that was, you know, planned.

Kelli (15:12.023)
Yeah.

Kelli (15:16.102)
for sure, for sure. And then she, don't know what sparked the, you know, disagreement, but again, she yells, you're an alcoholic to Shannon.

We Wine Whenever (15:17.892)
She's so trashy.

We Wine Whenever (15:27.117)
Yeah. but before that, I wanted to tell you, so Gina and her confessional, now I thought that this was hysterical, and her confessional, she says, as a group, we're not very demure and we're not very mindful. And you know what that is, right?

Kelli (15:36.552)
Yeah. Yeah. Where did that come from? That demure mindful thing?

We Wine Whenever (15:43.202)
that came from this person on TikTok and like they blew it up and then people were telling them to trademark it and then somebody else trademarked it and they were trying to steal it. So yeah, yeah. No, but it's so funny. I mean, I think he got it back. I think he did get it back.

Kelli (15:50.22)
Yeah.

Kelli (15:56.606)
come on.

Kelli (16:05.004)
I hope so. People are jerks. Let them have it.

We Wine Whenever (16:07.903)
I know. I'll be honest with you. I know. I don't know if it was a he or a they, but whoever they are, I believe that they did get it back. But I just think it's so funny that Gina referenced that because you know what? mean, Shannon couldn't have referenced that. Heather could have never referenced that. you know? So then they go around the table and they start to say their pit in their peak of the day.

Kelli (16:17.026)
That was good. Yeah. Yeah.

Kelli (16:25.474)
No, no.

Kelli (16:33.336)
Well, that's what it was.

We Wine Whenever (16:34.635)
That's where it starts. So Gina says, my pit was I had to wake up early to help Emily curl her hair. Emily's like, that was your pit? She's like, yeah, because I wanted to sleep in. Gina said her peak was seeing Shannon's daughters. you know, that was very, I thought that was a nice peak.

Kelli (16:41.684)
Yeah, she was so offended.

Kelli (16:52.268)
Yes, for sure.

We Wine Whenever (16:53.918)
And then Tamar said her high was the caviar. And Emily said, well, what was the pitch? She said that Jen came to my room and yelled at me about something Shannon started. And that's kind of where it was. And Shannon says, I'm done with you and your lies. I'm done explaining. I have text messages. Tamar says, you're a liar and a drunk. And then Gina says, I would like you to stop saying that. It's her journey. It's her choice, which I was so glad that Gina said that.

Kelli (17:22.924)
Thank God Shannon has Gina there advocating for her because it means so much because Gina went through the same thing. And they had beef about it in the past because of Shannon's comment about CPS. But I give Gina a lot of credit for advocating so much for Shannon with Tamra. Thank God.

We Wine Whenever (17:47.829)
I agree. I totally agree. And then Jen jumps in and she's like, you need to stop Tamara and ask, why are you believing her? She said, in the time that I've known you, she's been more of a friend to me than you have. And it's true because Tamara's only thrown Jen under the bus. That's all she's ever done. And even if Shannon did ask about the private, you know, detective, Shannon wasn't friends with Jen.

Kelli (18:01.751)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Kelli (18:17.612)
Right.

We Wine Whenever (18:18.151)
She was asking about Leslie Bedor. That's what her concern was.

Kelli (18:21.602)
Right.

Right. It is interesting to me though, because, you know, sorry to bring it back to Jersey, but Tamra came so hard at Louie for investigating. She was doing the same fucking thing. Tamra was doing the same thing. Investigating.

We Wine Whenever (18:30.869)
you

We Wine Whenever (18:39.018)
You mean shit

You just said Tamar came so hard for Louis.

Kelli (18:46.69)
Yeah, Tamara. Back when her and Teresa started that big beef, when Tamara was making comments about Louis. Months ago when Teresa still had her podcast. But she was doing the same thing. Nobody should be investigating anybody on these shows. Let Bravo do that. And by the way, Bravo, you should start doing better background checks, obviously. But let Bravo take care of that. It's not for the cast to look up cast members, boyfriends, and kids, and shit like that.

We Wine Whenever (18:51.7)
okay. Okay. yeah. Yes. Yes.

We Wine Whenever (19:16.434)
Right.

Kelli (19:16.876)
I'm sure Tamra's got plenty in her past that somebody could bring up.

We Wine Whenever (19:20.903)
Listen, mean, Google is one thing. Google is a thing, you know? You can Google people, that's it. And you see what you see, some of it's true. No.

Kelli (19:23.96)
Yeah.

the background checks and looking up legal documents.

We Wine Whenever (19:31.195)
No. It's shady!

Kelli (19:33.312)
It's totally shady. I don't even like it when bloggers put legal documents out there. I know it's public record. I work for a law firm. I've worked for law firms for over 20 years. I'm not looking up anybody's legal documents.

We Wine Whenever (19:46.375)
Well, if you are, you're not putting them on blogs.

Kelli (19:48.768)
I'm certainly not putting them on blogs. I'm really not even looking them up.

We Wine Whenever (19:52.147)
I do like if it's a case that's a public case like this case for instance that the Bravo docket was they they broke it down and their lawyers so they could give you the legal side of it.

Kelli (20:09.716)
I do like listening to the Bravo docket and hearing how they break down. But I'm not gonna go read a pleading or a complaint or an answer to a complaint. you know.

We Wine Whenever (20:14.555)
Yes.

No, no, exactly. Right, right. I'd rather hear an attorney, an educated person talk about it and just break it down that it's easy to understand, you know?

Kelli (20:27.16)
Right.

Kelli (20:31.308)
Right. I'm certainly not looking up pleadings that my friends are involved in in lawsuits. That's what I mean. And that's what all these people are doing.

We Wine Whenever (20:37.422)
No, no, yeah.

It's crazy. It really is crazy.

Kelli (20:43.894)
Mm-hmm.

We Wine Whenever (20:48.304)
And then Jen continues to yell like, talking about Ryan. Stop talking about him being a bookie. You better effing shut your mouth. Tamar says, why is he going to put a hit on me?

Kelli (21:02.008)
so stupid. Well, he's not Tamra, but the powers that be might now. Because you can't keep your fucking mouth shut. Have you learned nothing from us? You say nothing.

We Wine Whenever (21:07.504)
haha

We Wine Whenever (21:17.196)
so then after dinner the ladies say that they're gonna all go to bed because they have a big day ahead of them tomorrow and Jen and Kate...

Kelli (21:22.614)
Wait a minute. Did we talk about, wait, did, did she tell?

We Wine Whenever (21:28.399)
Well, they go to bed, but they don't. Then they break off and start talking separately.

Kelli (21:32.512)
Okay, but do we talk about Emily and Heather and Tamara being when when they told her about Travis? Okay, sorry, sorry. My notes are confusing.

We Wine Whenever (21:39.396)
That happens later. It didn't come up. Yeah, yeah, no, that's right. No, it didn't come up. Well, cause the show is confusing. The show is confusing.

Kelli (21:46.721)
It really is.

Cause I thought Gina said at that dinner. So was it the next day? All right, I'm jumping. Sorry, keep going.

We Wine Whenever (21:55.725)
Yeah,

Kelli (22:01.238)
Yeah, it must be. Okay.

We Wine Whenever (22:01.901)
You know, it was the next day. Yeah, it definitely was the next day. So they go up to bed because they have a big day tomorrow. So Jen and Katie are talking about it and they decide that they're over Tamara and all her accusations. Katie tells Jen how she's proud of her for standing up for herself. And everyone online is saying the same thing. Like Jen has found her voice and good for her. Then Shannon, Gina and Emily are sitting around talking and Shannon says, I can't thank you enough for helping me.

Kelli (22:20.79)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (22:30.678)
with that conversation because Tamra is just mean and cruel. And then Heather says, tells Tamra, you need to talk to Jen. Heather said, tomorrow take the opportunity to talk to Tamra. Shannon called last year before the reunion and said, we need to get Taylor's husband involved. He's an attorney. So that's what Heather and Tamra are talking about. We need to find out.

if Gina pushed Travis down the stairs. So that's what they're talking about after the dinner.

Kelli (23:07.756)
Right, okay.

We Wine Whenever (23:08.384)
And Heather's surprised. She's like, what? Tamar says, yeah, there was an article that came out and Heather says, are you going to tell Gina? Tamar says in her confessional, I don't want to hurt Gina, but you know, if she's dancing with the devil, she should know. Meaning Shannon? She's calling Shannon the devil? It's ridiculous. It's really ridiculous. It really is. So then the next morning.

Kelli (23:25.908)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's like a witch hunt.

Kelli (23:34.616)
Don't you remember when Tamra first came back on the show? She tried to do this to Shannon. Tamra's first season back on the show, she tried to do this. And she was drinking a lot, remember? Remember the scene on the boat where she was like screaming and yelling and she was drunk and she tried to do this once before.

We Wine Whenever (23:40.096)
Yes.

We Wine Whenever (23:49.569)
Yep. Yep. No, she didn't. Even when she came back, she said on Two Teas in a Pot, I was a real asshole. I was a real asshole. So we knew it before we watched it. And then we watched it and we totally agreed she was a real asshole. And she was blaming her behavior on her drinking because she kept saying, I don't drink a lot, but I get so nervous, my anxiety. So I drink too much. Well, then maybe you're the one with the alcohol problem. Right.

Kelli (24:08.226)
Right.

Kelli (24:16.948)
Right, then don't drink.

We Wine Whenever (24:20.447)
Exactly.

Kelli (24:22.178)
Some people just shouldn't drink.

We Wine Whenever (24:23.978)
Right. Yeah. I totally agree. So then the next morning they're all getting ready to go to the country and Shannon gets in the van and all of a sudden she starts crying in pain that she hasn't pooped in three days and she needs to get an enema. So the girls help her back into the hotel. Katie goes to get her the enema.

Kelli (24:37.404)
this poor woman.

Kelli (24:50.486)
I mean, we have seen countless scenes of Shannon using Col, know, colonics, enemas. I mean, this goes back to the David Bador days. poor Shannon. Poor Shannon.

We Wine Whenever (24:55.86)
Animus. yeah, yes, the colonic, right?

Yeah, when she got it stuck in her. I know, I know. But honestly, that is what I like about Shannon. She's being real. This is really what she's going through. She does, she always has. She always has, except for when she was being controlled by John Jansen. I should say by her ex, because we're not going to name him.

Kelli (25:16.534)
Yep, she does put it all out there.

Yep.

Kelli (25:29.196)
Right. He we don't speak of. Speak his name. We'll talk about him. That's not going to name him.

We Wine Whenever (25:31.517)
Right. So, so they're a little bit delayed and we see Heather, Emily and Tamar, they're walking around, they're feeding the swans, they're eating. I don't know what that pastry was, but do you know what that was that they were eating? Then they sit down to talk and Emily says to Heather, Gina told me you brought up my children. And Emily, know, inter confessional says that she's known this about a long, a long time, which we did know that. And

Heather said I was so upset that that is a bullshit story and she's trying to attack my camera character and I'm done with it and she's referring to Katie.

Kelli (26:12.472)
Mm-hmm.

We Wine Whenever (26:15.186)
Again, I mean, it really wasn't Katie, it was Katie's daughter. And really the one who's attacking your character is Tamara, because she's the one who keeps bringing this stupid shit up.

Kelli (26:29.196)
Right, nobody was gonna know about it.

We Wine Whenever (26:32.031)
Well, the thing is that scene, did we see that on camera? Yes, we did.

Kelli (26:39.788)
What, when they're doing the pottery thing? Yeah, but not until they brought it up. candle making, that's right, whatever.

We Wine Whenever (26:41.852)
Yeah. No. The candle making when they're doing the candle making. Yeah, but it was it was filmed.

It was filmed.

Kelli (26:53.73)
So the producers were probably prompting them. The producers were pushing to get it out.

We Wine Whenever (26:56.549)
Yes.

Right, because we didn't see the Emily conversation with Shane. We didn't see that Emily knew about it until afterwards, but it was, was films. It was definitely producers pushing Tamara and Tamara just takes the bait. She could say no.

Kelli (27:06.752)
Right. Right.

Kelli (27:15.852)
Yeah. Yeah, because they probably tried to get Emily to talk about it she was probably like, no, absolutely not. This is my kids. not doing that.

We Wine Whenever (27:23.365)
Right. Right.

We Wine Whenever (27:27.73)
So yeah, Tamara is the only other one that could talk about it because she was there with Katie.

Kelli (27:32.864)
Right, and Katie's not gonna bring it up. I mean, I would think.

We Wine Whenever (27:34.344)
No. I mean, Heather's already pissed off at Katie. Why is she gonna bring it up?

Kelli (27:38.612)
Exactly, Right.

We Wine Whenever (27:43.304)
so then they find out while they're there, they get a text that Shannon's not feeling well and that, you know, there she's going to be a little bit late and Tamar's like, probably cause she knows that she's going to be in trouble later. And Emily's like, well, what are you talking about? She's like, you know, she's like, well, it's about Gina. And she's like, is it bad? And Tamar said it's about Gina. And then she proceeds to tell her about the text message that she got before the reunion.

and wanting to know if Gina pushed Travis down the stairs. Now, before we saw this episode, I had sent you that article that I had read about all the things that went on behind the scenes with Gina and Travis and really the real reason that he moved out because what was going on with his ex. And it was bad. It was bad. And you know what? She made the right decision.

Kelli (28:23.16)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (28:31.542)
Right. Right.

We Wine Whenever (28:37.41)
Obviously she did not want that on camera. It was not her story to tell. She handled it perfectly. I think. I think. And then Tamara has to come and put this out there.

Kelli (28:42.328)
Right.

She did. She did.

We Wine Whenever (28:54.052)
I mean, it's insane to me.

Kelli (28:56.536)
Bye now.

Again, I think she thinks she's being a good housewife, but she's not.

We Wine Whenever (29:07.824)
Listen, even if you think you're being a good housewife, look in the mirror. You are being a horrible human being. What is more important?

Kelli (29:14.199)
Right.

Yeah, like this story should have been buried. This Travis thing should have been buried, especially knowing that it had to do with his ex-wife that can directly affect his kids.

We Wine Whenever (29:28.259)
Right, right. And that she had been making all these false accusations and doing all these things trying to affect his custody. like, it's just, I mean, when Tamar did that, listen, everything she's done to Shannon, I've been aggravated with. Then she's going, well, first she was going after Jen, then Shannon, now she's going after Gina? I mean, come on.

Kelli (29:38.082)
Great.

Kelli (29:54.764)
Yeah, because you can't say these things and not think that this person is, people are gonna have opinions now about this. People are gonna know more than they should about this. The guy's still going through a divorce. He's still going through a custody battle. Like, that's not your story to tell. That's not your place. You know, Shannon's a little bit different. Her girls are grown. But even Jen, even Jen's going through...

We Wine Whenever (30:19.79)
Right.

Kelli (30:22.664)
Even Jen going through what she's going through with her ex, you're trying to paint this guy Ryan as a criminal and her kids live with him. Like, what are you doing?

We Wine Whenever (30:31.18)
Right, right.

Yeah, yeah, because the father is not supporting them.

Kelli (30:39.328)
And I wonder if she's friends with the father. Like is Tamar friends with the father and like is this, he the ex, Jen's ex? Like is he pushing some of this? I don't know.

We Wine Whenever (30:54.264)
I don't know either. I don't know either. So.

Kelli (30:54.54)
Who knows?

We Wine Whenever (31:03.019)
All the ladies, sit down for the English roast. I really did not think Shannon was gonna make it. But she does, she shows up a little bit late and then Heather and Shannon go outside to talk and Shannon tells Heather about what Emily and Gina said about the conversation that she had with her and Sonoma when she already made it perfectly clear to her that, you know, I didn't want anyone to know about this bloody face picture of me.

Kelli (31:08.725)
No, me neither.

We Wine Whenever (31:31.232)
You know, this I told you in confidence. I specifically said I don't want it in the group and they play back Heather. Yes.

Kelli (31:38.392)
They flash back to Heather and she says, we don't have to bring this to.

We Wine Whenever (31:45.492)
Right, right.

Kelli (31:47.702)
and then she brought it to the crew.

We Wine Whenever (31:49.74)
Several times. Because this wasn't the first time, because Shannon told her, stop, you know, don't talk about this.

Kelli (31:56.376)
Mm-hmm.

We Wine Whenever (31:59.104)
So Shannon says, I didn't feel any compassion from you. And Heather says, I was so worried about you. And OK, were you worried about her though? I mean.

Kelli (32:11.24)
If she were worried, mean, then I wouldn't have brought it to the group. If she were really worried about her, I would have gone to maybe one person that was closest to Shannon. But I guess at the time it might have been Tamara.

We Wine Whenever (32:30.668)
Yeah, it prob-

Kelli (32:30.978)
Well, no, not at this point because Alexis had already joined the group and, you know, that's.

We Wine Whenever (32:36.577)
Yeah.

So then inside, Tamara now tells Gina that Shannon dug up information about you and consulted an attorney to see if you threw Travis down the stairs. And Gina calmly says, is that what happened?

And I was so proud of Gina for the way she responded to that. Travis's ex-wife tells all these horrible lies. She told people that I beat him and then I threw him down the stairs. And I know that there was more to this, but I didn't keep writing. I didn't keep taking notes, but that's when she said, these are my, like, these are children involved in this. Like, what are you doing? And again, she was very calm about it. And

Kelli (32:59.084)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (33:25.666)
The just doesn't get it. She doesn't get it.

Kelli (33:28.448)
No, because then Shannon comes in and they tell her what happened and Shannon says to Tamra, you were so involved in that. You were so involved in that. And I totally believe Shannon. 100%, I believe Shannon in this moment.

We Wine Whenever (33:34.508)
Right.

We Wine Whenever (33:45.622)
I do too and I'll be honest with you, I'm sure Gina believes Shannon too.

Kelli (33:50.428)
I saw Gina, I don't know if it was in a confessional or the after show, but basically she said like, okay, so Shannon and Tamara may have both done these things, but Shannon is now working on herself, continuously working on herself, and Tamara is not. Like, Tamara isn't taking any accountability for any of this.

We Wine Whenever (34:11.528)
No, none. it... Shannon never brought any of this information out.

Kelli (34:16.532)
Nope. Nope.

We Wine Whenever (34:18.25)
It was all Tamara. It was all Tamara doing it. And you know the interesting thing is, I don't know if you heard this, I'm not sure which podcast or who they were interviewing. It was the two Eds were interviewing. I don't remember who they were interviewing. But whoever it was, Tamara's Eddie said that he's still friends with David Baddour.

Kelli (34:43.852)
Really?

We Wine Whenever (34:44.702)
Yes, it was one of the new, it was, what's his name? It was John Fuda. It was John Fuda's interview.

Kelli (34:51.256)
I think I do remember, yeah, because I definitely listened to that interview. I think I remember him saying that.

We Wine Whenever (34:55.286)
Yes. I said to myself, that is very interesting because John was asking, like, you know, Eddie was saying, God, you guys in New Jersey, you husbands are really close and you have fun. Like we would like to do that. And John said, well, who do you hang out with? goes, really the only one I really talked to is David Bador and Terry Dubrow. Now, right?

Kelli (35:16.792)
That was interesting. Yeah, because listen, the worse Shannon looks, the better David looks, which I would hope by now David isn't like that, but it doesn't sound like they're co-parenting very well, so he must still be. But if he's hanging out with Eddie, then yeah, then that's another reason for Tamara to be stirring all this shit up about Shannon. It's just not a good look, Tamara. And then poor Shannon gets up and leaves her own birthday lunch.

We Wine Whenever (35:29.468)
No, no, and come on.

We Wine Whenever (35:39.478)
Yes, yes it is.

We Wine Whenever (35:46.026)
I know. Just as the cake was coming out.

Kelli (35:47.352)
And I didn't, as the cake was coming out and I didn't like how Emily started laughing when they brought Shannon's cake out and Shannon was leaving. I thought that was a little mean girlish and that's, you I don't like that from Emily.

We Wine Whenever (36:01.196)
I think sometimes Emily gets wrapped up in the whole situation.

Kelli (36:04.608)
I do too and I think Tamra brings out a very bad side of her.

We Wine Whenever (36:07.948)
But you know what happened that I really didn't like is that Tamar blew out the candles.

Kelli (36:12.536)
I didn't even notice that.

We Wine Whenever (36:13.708)
Tamar blew out Shanna's candles.

Kelli (36:16.952)
ridiculous.

We Wine Whenever (36:18.326)
I mean, that was ridiculous. It really was.

Kelli (36:20.344)
Yeah, yeah, I'm not, I'm just not, you know, it's just getting very Jersey-ish now. I'm not enjoying it. It's just a lot of, like I said, middle school bullshit with the talking behind each other's back and now Tamra bringing all this shit out. That was years ago. I don't know.

We Wine Whenever (36:41.398)
No, I totally agree. I'm over it.

Kelli (36:42.806)
I'm glad next week's the season finale. Have you heard the Braav bros? I haven't really listened to any of their podcasts, but I have seen clips on Instagram, but I know I go through this every time, which is the one who's in recovery. Steel? Okay, Steel is coming hard for Tamra. Like.

We Wine Whenever (37:03.97)
No, he never liked Tamra, right?

Kelli (37:06.432)
Well, more so now because of how she keeps calling, just like Gina's saying, like she keeps calling her an alcoholic. And he's like, first of all, you clearly have your own dysfunctional relationship with alcohol. And second of all, it's not for you to determine who is an alcoholic and who is not.

We Wine Whenever (37:12.481)
Right.

We Wine Whenever (37:18.924)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (37:26.712)
She's got problems, Tim.

We Wine Whenever (37:27.778)
I mean calling her drunk on this last, drunk! You're a drunk, I mean come on.

Kelli (37:31.926)
Yeah. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (37:35.18)
I just saw something on, I think it was Instagram, where Vicki was talking. She's on, there's this show with like reality TV people. I have to find it. Where she was talking, yes, did you see it?

Kelli (37:45.9)
The dark side or something. Okay, I haven't seen it, but I heard of it. I didn't watch it yet.

We Wine Whenever (37:50.937)
So she was talking about how she will never forgive Bravo, what production did when her mom passed away. And when she explained the whole thing, I was like, my God, I totally forgot about that.

Kelli (38:07.308)
I started reading it, but I didn't finish it. Basically what Brianna was trying to get in touch with her and they wouldn't let her answer her phone.

We Wine Whenever (38:14.595)
Brianna was trying to call her for an hour and she was doing a scene. It was at Shannon's house. They were at Shannon's house. They were doing something at Shannon's house. so Brianna called production and production got everything set up and all lit in the other room to bring Vicki in there to tell her. So they knew for an hour and they wanted to get it set up to film it.

Kelli (38:20.8)
Yeah, they're playing a bunko or something, right?

Kelli (38:43.638)
Yeah. And she fell to the ground. I'll never forget that. That was so sad. She fell to the ground.

We Wine Whenever (38:44.505)
That, yes, yes, that, yes, that's horrific. That is horrific. I don't know why she'd ever go back on that show, to be quite honest with you, after that.

Kelli (38:56.48)
I know.

Yeah, I agree with you.

We Wine Whenever (39:02.507)
I was very surprised to hear that.

Kelli (39:04.396)
Yeah, that was terrible.

We Wine Whenever (39:07.074)
Yeah.

Kelli (39:09.26)
Well, next week's the season finale, hallelujah, but I'm sure we're getting a three-part reunion. were you the one who told me somebody told me they read something where Alexis is unhinged at the reunion?

We Wine Whenever (39:12.087)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (39:20.621)
Well, Andy said that. Yeah, so we'll wait and see what happens.

Kelli (39:27.831)
Sure will.

We Wine Whenever (39:29.273)
Until next time, thank you for watching and listening to We Why Whenever. Please like us, give us five star reviews, and share with your friends. Bye!

Kelli (39:38.039)
Bye.